Evolution Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I didn't think this roof was all that complicated. The first build actually came out looking very good. I wish I had saved a copy of that plan. Then the client wanted more changes. Next build on the roof really screwed up now. I've attempted several iterations but when I try to manually adjust the quirky valleys everything goes hay wire. I deleted the roof and drew in some cad line to mark where I think the ridge should be. I've actually had the hands on experience of building so common sense tells me if my main dimension wall to wall on each section of the home are the same, and the main roof pitch is the same, in this case 14/12 and the over hangs are all the same (ceiling height is 10') then the roof shouldn't have the crazy lines the software keeps building. Hoping one of you roof guru's can help me with this. I am posting the plan (for about the third or fourth time in this post and most of the other threads I've started). Appreciate all the help in advance. The clip of the roof full view isn't very good but hopefully you can make out the weird offsets etc. I need a smooth as possible eve and ridge line and the eye brows over the bump outs should all be the same I would think? Plan 1a Main Level X6.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sorry Eric, can't get the correct plan to upload now! It is only 3.61MB but the forum uploader message is: Try our advanced uploader (requires Flash 9). I attempt that but when I select the file and select upload the system just keeps grinding with no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Put it in a zip folder, then send Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Posted plan does not match your images. I have been waiting for the client to decide on the over-all dimensions they wanted for the master areas, and actual finished ceiling heights vs plate height (i.e. 14' plate in most main areas-10' and 9' finished ceiling in some other areas). So, for some reason all the previous "minor" dimension changes caused CRAZY roof iterations when I do auto-rebuild. Hopefully they have finally come to a conclusion with major dimension changes. I have updated the current floor plan with most, of the major dimension changes and as they have provided info, added cabinets etc to suffice for now. The problem now is, attempting to build the roof (manually) is becoming so frustrating, and time constraints wouldn't normally be a problem if my home computer hadn't crashed, so currently I can only work on it in the office. I have zipped the original back up file of where we started (that is the roof line they want) and added the current updated plan file (that is the CRAZY roof they do not want). Not sure what the best approach is NOW to build the original manual roof on the current updated floor plan and how to lock it so the roof doesn't change when I add any or change any interior walls. All help acknowledge and appreciated! Plan 2R SELECT Main Level X6 Current 12.16.2014.zip Plan 2 SELECT Main Level BACK UPR original X6 Current.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 One part is 26' wide and the other is 23' therefore the ridges are different heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 One part is 26' wide and the other is 23' therefore the ridges are different heights. Yes, I understand that. From experience I know roof's on different sections with varying dimensions will cause differing results, but it should be possible to LIMIT the crazy results to some degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Maybe an "override the rule of geometry" button? I prefer to manually create all but the simplest roof forms. Then you can control the crazy. The algorithm just covers the plan with a roof - it does not design a roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Bob -- I spent a few minutes cleaning up the plan. I'd share it with you but I'm using the trial version of Chief. Mostly the roof issues are caused by varying ceiling heights. Make them all the same and the roof behaves. The roof is auto built. bob roof 1.jpg I noticed some other things that may or may not be a problem. Here is one. Notice the horizontal blue line and how the walls along it are not aligned. bob roof 2.jpg Eric, that seems simple enough. My home computer is down so Imwillnhave to wait until I am back in the office tomorrow. I watched the video on lowering the ceiling height while not changing the plate height, but the presenter talked fast and some parts of the vid were not clear. If I ever manage the roof I will have to work on lowering the ceiling without changing the plate height.Thanks for the help, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I noticed some other things that may or may not be a problem. Here is one. Notice the horizontal blue line and how the walls along it are not aligned. Eric those walls were lined up! I used a cad line to line them up. I don't know what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I noticed some other things that may or may not be a problem. Here is one. Notice the horizontal blue line and how the walls along it are not aligned. Eric those walls were lined up! I used a cad line to line them up. I don't know what happened? Bob, I wouldn't use a CAD line to align walls. It can work but sometimes even a little off will create some nasty results. If you find you need walls to line up exactly across an opening drag a single wall across the opening and then break it to create the opening. Guaranteed to line up then. Or use Chiefs wall align snaps that will also get them aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragetoca Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 My main software is Autocad Architecture which does a pretty good job figuring out roofs - this is what it came up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Bob, I wouldn't use a CAD line to align walls. It can work but sometimes even a little off will create some nasty results. If you find you need walls to line up exactly across an opening drag a single wall across the opening and then break it to create the opening. Guaranteed to line up then. Or use Chiefs wall align snaps that will also get them aligned. I haven't learned that tool yet. I will def put that on my things to remember list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 My main software is Autocad Architecture which does a pretty good job figuring out roofs - this is what it came up with That looks more like what I have been trying to draw manually! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Once the roof is done and you turn off auto rebuild roofs, you may set the ceiling height and the roof will not change. oh yeah, I remember seeing that on home talk I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I have NOT given up on building the roof. After countless changes from the client, finally think things are NAILED down enough the over-all dimensions will no longer change (but there is ALWAYS Murphy's law). I feel the roof is in much better shape now than when I first posted my request for some help. At least for the most part, there are some ridge caps now produced that weren't there before, which If I understand the tutorials and videos I've read and watched over and over mean SOME progress. I do have a roof edge most likely interfering with a wall. I know I still have an issue with the main roof plan east - west lining up and connecting. Some gable ends WHERE THERE and now parts and pieces are missing. The client came back and added a "circular balcony" and requested the roof also be radius over the balcony rail (I started it, and they said that is what they want) but I haven't had success in getting it modeled correctly) I left some of my last attempt in place, as the ridge line is +/- what they want. I think once you open the plan you will see more than just roof issues, however; I continue to work on finding and fixing what I can. ONE NOTE please, if you wish to help me, I do APPRECIATE it! I know it is UP TO ME to learn the tools and the software and I may have gotten the cart before the horse, at least I AM NOT IGNORANT to that fact already. If you intend to CRITICIZE and offer SARCASM, well; I appreciate "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism, but I CAN DO WITHOUT the Sarcasm!!!! THANKS for anyone who'd like to take me under your wing and offer suggestions aside from "study the user guide" I do that every free moment I can. Watch the GREAT roof tutorials, I have all the good sites saved to favorites on my Ipad, and almost every waking moment I am not performing all my other responsibilities I watch. D Scott Hall's which are some of the best. I am posting the zipped file which is the very latest. Again, I am tweaking what I can every day. Thank (each of you) in advance!!! 1.12.2015David Baker Lake House updated KEEP.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 discounting the unfinished circular roof Bob ,what issues are you seeing? I see some wall problems at each end caused by roof plans protruding into the wall ,they need to be dragged back out to the outside of the exterior walls ie I pulled these two planes back out to fix the wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Bob, Here's how I'd go about creating the curved roof. I'll leave it to you to figure out the eave height and resolve the roof intersections and trapped valleys. http://youtu.be/0KKasliuiKY (sorry, no sound. I'm no DSH.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Sound would def help. Looks neat but not what they're expecting. I will attempt a sketch tomorrow what they would like. Thanks k Kevin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Sound would def help. Looks neat but not what they're expecting. I will attempt a sketch tomorrow what they would like. Thanks k Kevin! Kevin "The Moakster" did a great job with the curved roof, that is what I was thinking but I think he took it a step further, thanks K, if I get a chance I will do a follow up with sound mimicking K's approach but also taking a little bit of a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wanted to get the roof to auto build. Still needs some manual fixing. Maybe this will help a bit, Bob. I set all the ceiling heights to default, and deleted a bunch of unneeded walls in the attic space. Added some walls in the garage, and a one in the open stairwell. The curved balcony roof would build, except for the angled wall to the side. You could generate it in a copy of the plan without that angled wall, then copy it and paste hold position into the original plan. Do the below grade walls need insulation? A 2x wall inside them? It definitely took on a life of it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Completed roof. Mostly auto built with a bit of manual cleanup. bob r4.jpg Thanks Eric! Certainly looks good from here. Great news, email from Client last night with a laundry list of changes I have to make. Things like, changing all the windows in the great room lake side, move the fire place at the garage/veranda and add window and arched opening, reconfigure the exterior stairs etc., etc., SO I continue the saga. What you've done to help is MOST appreciated. At least I know it CAN be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelbuilding Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hi David, Had a quick look at your model, noticed you have roof planes on top of roof planes. Needs a good clean up and your geometry is all over the place. Use you cross section slider and you will how all your roof planes dont intersect, they run over and are short from conecting the intersecting of the adjacent roof plane. You can build your framing and see how the geometry is all over the place. Im no expert on CA though i know how to build a roof and if the geometry is not correct CA cannot make the correct connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Giving up is NOT AN OPTION, but after almost 15 straight hours and still no success, I am exhausted. I can't think clearly, but cutting to the chase, I've attached the last updated plan. If any of you have read my other post on differing problems I encountered since my last laundry list of changes from the owner you know I really haven't resolved anything at this point. I thought I was headed in the right direction after receiving all the great advice, but for some reason after adding the existing summer house to the mix of things, which also required major angle changes between the house, garage, and summer house I have even more issues to deal with. Several have attempted the radius roof over the balcony, the designer finally settle on what she wanted last Friday, and I have only been able to do a free hand CAD sketch trying to convey it. I started it but gave up, since adding the summer house has screwed up the works. I will call it a night, and start again early in the morning. Dead line for progress plan review is next Tuesday, and I don't have a snow-ball's chance if things don't change. Good night! 1.17.2015 Exp 2 plan ext stair revision KEEP.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 More views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Bob, There is no data in the file you attached. You need to close the plan in Chief before attaching. Take a couple of deep breaths and we will see what we can sort out in the Skype session tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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