Considering Chief Architect

[ebdesign]

Oh, jeezus.

We've been down this road before.

Both of you are creating a straw-man argument here.

I did NOT make that assertion. Please reread my statement.

 

Chief's 2DCAD is adequate for my needs 99% of the time. When it's not, I use ACAD.

 

& ask for anything you want.  I'm all for improvements anywhere, incl 2D. Bring 'em on!

Over & out.

[KevinWaldron]

Having started with Autocad in the early 80's and later on with Chief when it first began..... I like all above have an opinion.

 

We are a design build firm who have been building and designing since 1969 till present with over 2000+ houses, commercial buildings, and apartments..... when the depression hit in 2006 decided to  try something totally different (not completely leaving the building business but stepping back in a large way)....... We went into the Musical Instrument business and purchased CNC, Lasers, and several other high tech computer assisted machinery. We were forced to learn many new software packages that drew in 3D for the purpose of producing parts that our machinery could use to make our new products. Programs such as Catia, Solidworks, Rhinoceros, FormZ, Rhinocam, Madcam, Enroute, Artcam and several more. Say all this to establish that we do have a fairly extensive background into the world of drawing/designing. With this said I like to express what we have observed.

 

Chief, in many ways has not changed in 10 years...... few more bells and whistles but very little actual improvements in the base software. It will produce a fairly clean set of plans in a reasonable time frame and yes, they are in 3D but in todays standards of 3D fairly crude. You can use many of the base tools to produce various 3D parts and pieces but it is extremely slow and crude in the way that you have to accomplish simple 3D task or for that matter basic 2D task. Import feature of 3D files is another instance of poor options... only 3D files permitted are basically mesh style files...... nurb files and several other formats are not recognized with out conversion. 3D mouse is one of the tools that we use extensively....... and Chief ....... has not embraced the technology. The 2012 Building Codes have been ignored for all practical purposes...... in offering real world tools that assist and make life easier to comply with the codes. Producing any kind of plan that has large amounts of free form curves is un-heard of. True multi-file use could be a major draw back for your firm. We could go on but I've think my point was that Chief has many draw backs....... you will have to determine where you need to be.  We do have the latest and greatest Chief program so we have remained current.

 

Blessings,

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

You pay for what you get, and you can't compare Chief to those other programs, if you do 3d parts, use AutoCAD Inventer for that not Chief. Chief is not designed for that. For what most of us here need, Chief works mostly perfectly, give or take a few items here and there. I wouldn't use Chief for drawing parts of musical instruments.

[ACADuser]

One of my current projects is a one story office.

These details are ACAD while the floor plan is CA. I don't see myself doing all this in CA.

The sections have changed several times, so doing mods with CA sections when line tweaking is required would drive you nuts.

 

JMO

[lbuttery]

Chief, in many ways has not changed in 10 years...... few more bells and whistles but very little actual improvements in the base software

 

Kevin:

 

 

sorry, but this is not even close to being true

 

I have used Chief for a decade since ver 9.5 and there have been huge improvements

with each release

 

I for one, have posted many a suggestion/complaint about various features that I would

like to see in Chief

 

some have come and many have not

 

however, I'm not the only user and others have different needs

 

bottom line - Chief grows better with each and every release

and yet it will never be perfect

 

if you can't see the growth then either you are not looking

or Chief just can't meet your needs

 

Lew

[KevinWaldron]

Perry,

 

My point wasn't musical instruments........ my point was I have a good background to make a fairly reasonable assesment of what Chief will and want do, not sure you had experise in other 3D programs. By the way programs like Rhinoceros plus the Architectural add-in Visualarq as well as Form z8 are competive with Chief in price. Your post indicate that you only use and like Chief only........ no offense intended....... though I could offer a broader and less biased prospective.

 

Blessings,

 

Kevin

[KevinWaldron]

Lew,

 

Example:

 

Simple question...... can you export a 3D PDF from Chief?   Been using 3D PDF from other programs since 2006........

 

Many of the things Chief has added in 10 years are basic things that many Cad packages have done out of the box .....

 

We only use Chief about 30% of the time now for our design build...... so your correct in the fact that in many ways the program no longer fits our needs.

 

Blessings,

 

Kevin

[lbuttery]

Kevin:

 

there is no perfect software

 

there is some feature "missing" from any software you care to look at

 

I have chewed on CA for almost a decade about adding "industry standard" BIM to Chief

no joy

 

that's doesn't mean that there hasn't been any improvements in Chief

 

if BIM was "critical" to my workflow I would have had to move to some other software

 

I want it because it will help make Chief the 800-lb Gorilla in the industry

 

same as I want a full implementation of Ruby with a macro recording feature

 

no joy there either

 

yet, every release is packed with other goodies

 

Lew

[DRAWZILLA]

One of my current projects is a one story office.

These details are ACAD while the floor plan is CA. I don't see myself doing all this in CA.

The sections have changed several times, so doing mods with CA sections when line tweaking is required would drive you nuts.

 

JMO

That looks like a commercial project. I think Chief is only recommended for residential and light commercial , like T.I. stuff, you will probably never like Chief if that's what you do. I would think the natural progression would be to use Revit.

[dshall]

..........We only use Chief about 30% of the time now for our design build...... so your correct in the fact that in many ways the program no longer fits our needs.

 

...

 

Kevin,  I love to hear other users opinions.  Since you use CA only 30% of the time,  what else do you use?  What do you think is the best program for the typical HOME CD'S.

 

JPC who occasionally posts,  and I truly respects his opinion,  and apparentlly has used and uses many different programs,  prefers  CA if he had to choose........  for the typical house.

 

 

I love CA,  but that is all I know,  I have not used any other programs.  So what is your go to  program for most of your typical residential work?

 

Thanks.

[DRAWZILLA]

Perry,

 

My point wasn't musical instruments........ my point was I have a good background to make a fairly reasonable assesment of what Chief will and want do, not sure you had experise in other 3D programs. By the way programs like Rhinoceros plus the Architectural add-in Visualarq as well as Form z8 are competive with Chief in price. Your post indicate that you only use and like Chief only........ no offense intended....... though I could offer a broader and less biased prospective.

 

Blessings,

 

Kevin

My son runs 50 seats of Acad, Inventor, Revit and others, and he wouldn't even think of using Chief for any of his "parts" he does all over the world . Chief is just not intended for those kinds of things just like I wouldn't think of using any of yours for homes.

[HumbleChief]

One of my current projects is a one story office.

These details are ACAD while the floor plan is CA. I don't see myself doing all this in CA.

The sections have changed several times, so doing mods with CA sections when line tweaking is required would drive you nuts.

 

JMO

The details shown are quite easy to duplicate in Chief and the changing sections are right in Chief's wheelhouse. Easy to change and modify if you understand Chief's way of doing things and that's by far the key, IMO,  to this whole discussion.

 

You say everything except for the floor plans are ACAD? Does that mean that all the sections are drawn in ACAD - by hand? No one who understands Chief would even consider that - way, way, too much work and changes must be a nightmare. Chief cuts usable sections from a properly built model (heavy emphasis on 'properly') in seconds. Annotated in minutes. Change the model the section changes, adjust accordingly, sections changed. So, so easy.

 

Anyone who is proficient with Chief would have absolutely no problem recreating the pages you show and not fall behind a proficient user in ACAD either, might even be faster in Chief.. But, and it's a big but, you have to understand how Chief works. If not then it seems cumbersome and inefficient. If so then creating thousands of details and changing/modifying sections is a genuine no brainer - again if you understand how Chief works.

 

One issue is that Chief's focus is very narrow. I've done commercial plans and plumbing isometrics and the first plan I did with my assistant ACAD user he was looking for an ACAD tool and of course I had to ask him what he wanted to do and said, "Really, it's that easy? It's better than ACAD." Granted this was for only one tool but there's a thousand Eureka moments waiting in Chief when you discover how the tools work, which I believe was Jim's point above. And even though Chief is residential focused it's not bad for small commercial either.

[Nicinus]

We only use Chief about 30% of the time now for our design build...... so your correct in the fact that in many ways the program no longer fits our needs.

 

Blessings,

 

Kevin

 

Out of curiousity, what are you using for the other 70%? Unless it is something I'm unfamiliar with like Bentley I would bet I could list some serious drawbacks with those tools as well, like Lew says.

 

I completely agree that Chief is not the tool for Zaha Hadid style architecture, but the same goes for Revit and many others. I do find it very good for conceptual design development though, far superior to Revit for example when it comes to quickly visualize traditional residential design.

 

I'm personally not asking for Rhino/Grasshopper style freeform modeling here, just some tlc on the 2D editing tools and on the layout side. Perhaps a little more intelligent call outs etc. One has to remember that neither Rhino, FormZ nor Sketchup are particular useful when it comes to construction docs. 

 

If Chief would look a little at what interests the average small firm architects and how they would like to control the final output I think we would be good. Given the latest ads, which all display more modern design than all their demo videos do, it may be in the works, who knows?

[dshall]

That looks like a commercial project. I think Chief is only recommended for residential and light commercial , like T.I. stuff, you will probably never like Chief if that's what you do. I would think the natural progression would be to use Revit.

 

Yeah,  I really don't care what is the best program for commercial work.  I do not want to reinvent the wheel,  I do not want to design some 40,000 sf for someone who has more money than he knows what to do with.  I would be happy adding 15'x20' bump out family rooms for the rest of my working years if I could choose.

 

I would rather not learn another computer program,  the only program I want to learn is the fitness program that will give me the body of an Adonis.  

[dshall]

.......I completely agree that Chief is not the tool for Zaha Hadid style architecture,.....

 

I love her stuff,  some really neat stuff.  I wonder if she is a one woman office or if she has a receptionist.  Personally,  I answer all phone calls.

[HumbleChief]

That looks like a commercial project. I think Chief is only recommended for residential and light commercial , like T.I. stuff, you will probably never like Chief if that's what you do. I would think the natural progression would be to use Revit.

Yes Perry but look at the ConDoc pages. Would you have any trouble reproducing those pages in kind? Didn't think so. And no one would be waiting around for you nor would the ACAD guy fly by you as you struggled with Chief's inefficient CAD tools.

[Nicinus]

I love her stuff,  some really neat stuff.  I wonder if she is a one woman office or if she has a receptionist.  Personally,  I answer all phone calls.

 

I think I read somewhere that she has around 350 employees. So yes probably a receptionist as well. 

[HumbleChief]

I see I am venturing dangerously close to defending Chief as a software program but believe me when I say i would have echoed everyone's sentiments about Chiefs limited CAD tools and limited focus a few years ago.

 

I couldn't build a proper model to save my life (still have troubles as this forum is well aware) and was stuck with Chief's 2D  CAD tools for a lot of revisions and hand work. Tedious doesn't even come close to describe the pain. Now I understand Chief and the reason the program exists it is much easier to deal with. A cursory glance will leave any ACAD user frustrated to say the least. A dedicated couple years and it's second nature and very good indeed for small residential and light commercial.

[DRAWZILLA]

Yes Perry but look at the ConDoc pages. Would you have any trouble reproducing those pages in kind? Didn't think so. And no one would be waiting around for you nor would the ACAD guy fly by you as you struggled with Chief's inefficient CAD tools.

Oh Ya, that can be done in Chief, as we all know, just about anything can be done in Chief, if you can build the model without too many flaws. I just choose not to b/c I get all the work I need, doing much simpler stuff. Makes life easy, except for the plan check of course.

[ACADuser]

The details shown are quite easy to duplicate in Chief and the changing sections are right in Chief's wheelhouse. Easy to change and modify if you understand Chief's way of doing things and that's by far the key, IMO,  to this whole discussion.

 

You say everything except for the floor plans are ACAD? Does that mean that all the sections are drawn in ACAD - by hand? No one who understands Chief would even consider that - way, way, too much work and changes must be a nightmare. Chief cuts usable sections from a properly built model (heavy emphasis on 'properly') in seconds. Annotated in minutes. Change the model the section changes, adjust accordingly, sections changed. So, so easy.

 

Anyone who is proficient with Chief would have absolutely no problem recreating the pages you show and not fall behind a proficient user in ACAD either, might even be faster in Chief.. But, and it's a big but, you have to understand how Chief works. If not then it seems cumbersome and inefficient. If so then creating thousands of details and changing/modifying sections is a genuine no brainer - again if you understand how Chief works.

 

One issue is that Chief's focus is very narrow. I've done commercial plans and plumbing isometrics and the first plan I did with my assistant ACAD user he was looking for an ACAD tool and of course I had to ask him what he wanted to do and said, "Really, it's that easy? It's better than ACAD." Granted this was for only one tool but there's a thousand Eureka moments waiting in Chief when you discover how the tools work, which I believe was Jim's point above. And even though Chief is residential focused it's not bad for small commercial either.

 

Well I'm in my second month with CA so I look forward to the day when I can do that in CA.

 

The sections and details are quite easy in ACAD as I use LISP & dynamic blocks for lots of things.

And the Stretch command in ACAD is very easy. So changes are quick for me. In CA all cleanup efforts are lost when changing to a revised section.

 

I haven't found Web trusses and can't seem to figure out Drop ceilings but time will tell.

The issue I see with sections is that 3D to 2D leaves a lot of clean up requirements but that may be me too.

[4hotshoez]

It has been 90 days since I started using Chief. It is both better than I expected and in some ways not as good as I had hoped. But it is better than the alternative. I have used ACAD since the first release. I own Archicad and used it for about ten years, but cannot afford to upgrade. ACAD is good for nothing. Archicad is good for commercial and you would pay way too much for its capabilities to build a house. Sketchup was not mentioned and it is great for custom shapes and unusual homes, but it is not ready for production. BTW, Sketchup and Chief work well together as you can drag and drop SU files into CA.

 

I would say that you can very quickly learn and build 75 to 85% of what you need to create a house plan. In the first week I did a full house (4,000 sf) with walls doors, windows and dimensions on both floors and was able to view it in 3D. The next week I placed cabinets and generated interior elevations. However, things became more difficult once I attempted to create complete and usable 3D views, as they require more gaps to be filled in.

 

Roofs are still challenging when I have various dormers and bearing heights. I have not done any site work modeling. Photorealistic Ray Tracing requires a lot more work and time as you must set up lighting, materials, select furniture, set up views, but they can wow the boss and clients. There are so many more areas to learn. I feel that in these 90 days that I have nearly become an expert at cabinetry as Chief excels in this area and I still could improve.

 

I see Chief as very customizable in setting up default settings to make cookie-cutter houses go very fast, but you must invest a lot of time learning Chief to know what settings can be configured in defaults. The training videos are pretty good. There are a lot, almost too many. This forum is pretty good, but as you can see, some of the long time users can get defensive when new features are suggested.

 

Over all, Chief is the best app for conventional residential construction. No app does it all perfect. Chief has room for improvement, but it is decades ahead of ACAD and very similar to Archicad. Chief is deeper than I expected. Not a shallow, off-the-shelf CAD program. It is intuitive for the 75%, but the other 25% will require more work to get the full 100% of Chief's capabilities.

[ragetoca]

4hotshoez - thank you for the comments, I am hesitant to make the plunge to CA....decisions decisions

[dshall]

4hotshoez - thank you for the comments, I am hesitant to make the plunge to CA....decisions decisions

Out of curiosity, have you signed into other user sites for other programs and if so, what did those folks say about their program?

[4hotshoez]

4hotshoez - thank you for the comments, I am hesitant to make the plunge to CA....decisions decisions

If your whole office is ACAD, it will be a difficult switch. I would recommend having one person trying Chief on a few simple projects for the first two months. If it goes well, that person can help with the training and transition. That person will do best if he/she has that time and interest to dedicate learning. It is not hard to learn. It is actually fun to use. Including my time to learn, I was still faster creating interior elevations than 2D CAD jockey on ACAD. Keep searching for the right software. You will be back here.

[mthd97]

Hi Raul, I use both Chief and ArchiCAD.

My view is you only load the apps you need to get the Job done.

Many use Chief and other 2d Cad tools together, I dont use Autocad but I see the many benefits of it.

I would use Chief for 3d presentations for cookie cutter homes or project homes.

It would be very easy to export a dwg file from Cheif and send it into Autocad to finish off while you are learning the ropes, I dont need any 2d cad programs to get the job done in Chief.

I would say Chief is a very good fit for your company and not that hard to learn either for the younger generation cad operators since you are based in the US, Chief was specifically made for the US style homes.

Give a good test run before you make your decision.

You havent told us what apps you use for material take off or cost estimating and if you are intending to use Chief for this as well?