Plan View vs Annotation Sets vs Layers

[skoz44]

For the past number of years, I have been using Layer Sets and Annotation Sets to control the views being sent to Layout.  Now I've been introduced to Plan Views and am getting a little confused over them all.  From what I now understand, it's somewhat of a hierarchy:

 

1. Plan Views - control annotation sets, layer sets, and a few other items that layer/annotation do not control (reference display, floor, etc.)

    2. Annotation Sets - control dimensions, text, etc. for that specific annotation set.  They also control Layer Sets.

        3. Layer Sets - control what "layer" is turned on in the view and what is turned off

 

In light of this recent knowledge, It now seems that I should predominantly be using Plan Views to control what is being seen in the plan window, for it controls the annotation set, which controls the layer sets.  So if I want to switch from the floor plan to the electrical plan, simply change the Plan View to Electrical Plan.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

Finally, how are Working Plan View and Working Layer Sets utilized?  It's only one view, so can't understand how it is helpful.

 

Thanks
 

 

 

 

 

How is the Working Plan ust

 

[MarkMc]

I use it for working with working layer set and never send it to layout.

[dshall]

4 hours ago, skoz44 said:

....

 

In light of this recent knowledge, It now seems that I should predominantly be using Plan Views to control what is being seen in the plan window, for it controls the annotation set, which controls the layer sets.  So if I want to switch from the floor plan to the electrical plan, simply change the Plan View to Electrical Plan.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

Finally, how are Working Plan View and Working Layer Sets utilized?  It's only one view, so can't understand how it is helpful.

 

Thanks
 

 

 

 

 

How is the Working Plan ust

 

 

yes.

[HumbleChief]

6 hours ago, skoz44 said:

For the past number of years, I have been using Layer Sets and Annotation Sets to control the views being sent to Layout.  Now I've been introduced to Plan Views and am getting a little confused over them all.  From what I now understand, it's somewhat of a hierarchy:

 

1. Plan Views - control annotation sets, layer sets, and a few other items that layer/annotation do not control (reference display, floor, etc.)

    2. Annotation Sets - control dimensions, text, etc. for that specific annotation set.  They also control Layer Sets.

        3. Layer Sets - control what "layer" is turned on in the view and what is turned off

 

In light of this recent knowledge, It now seems that I should predominantly be using Plan Views to control what is being seen in the plan window, for it controls the annotation set, which controls the layer sets.  So if I want to switch from the floor plan to the electrical plan, simply change the Plan View to Electrical Plan.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

Another 'yes' to the above, but I don't understand the question below?

 

"Finally, how are Working Plan View and Working Layer Sets utilized?  It's only one view, so can't understand how it is helpful.

Thanks
How is the Working Plan ust"

[SNestor]

7 hours ago, skoz44 said:

For the past number of years, I have been using Layer Sets and Annotation Sets to control the views being sent to Layout.  Now I've been introduced to Plan Views and am getting a little confused over them all.  From what I now understand, it's somewhat of a hierarchy:

 

1. Plan Views - control annotation sets, layer sets, and a few other items that layer/annotation do not control (reference display, floor, etc.)

    2. Annotation Sets - control dimensions, text, etc. for that specific annotation set.  They also control Layer Sets.

        3. Layer Sets - control what "layer" is turned on in the view and what is turned off

 

In light of this recent knowledge, It now seems that I should predominantly be using Plan Views to control what is being seen in the plan window, for it controls the annotation set, which controls the layer sets.  So if I want to switch from the floor plan to the electrical plan, simply change the Plan View to Electrical Plan.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

Finally, how are Working Plan View and Working Layer Sets utilized?  It's only one view, so can't understand how it is helpful.

 

Thanks
 

 

 

 

 

How is the Working Plan ust

 

 

Plan Views do (or can) control annotation/default and layer sets.  But...they have other benefits and you should explore using them. The Chief template "residential template.plan" includes some basic plan views. You should try this template out and create a basic little 2-story house plan and explore how the plan views work. One of the biggest benefits is that you can assign custom Reference Layer Sets...unfortunately Chief has not done a great job explaining the benefits of custom REF Sets. Another big benefit of Plan Views is that you can open multiple plan views at one time...so, if you are working on a roof plan, you can also look at your floor plan...side by side. Or...a maybe you are working on the floor framing plan and want to see where your water closet is above is located...custom ref set. 

 

Also, you don't really need a dedicated "annotation/default" set with every plan view...as the Plan View itself will save whatever defaults you assign to the PV. I would say that you would want a layerset to match your Plan View. 

 

I'd say you should get on board with plan views as I feel this is how Chief is moving...and if you don't get up to speed soon you'll have an even more difficult time wrapping your head around how to use them.

 

One of my big gripes about Plan Views (and a number of things Chief does)...is they release this powerful new tool and create just a general video that glosses over how great this new feature is...but they never really do a deep dive into things like PV's.  IMO they should have created a series of videos covering something like this in great detail. 

[Ridge_Runner]

43 minutes ago, SNestor said:

 IMO they should have created a series of videos covering something like this in great detail. 

I totally agree. I know training videos are not cheap to make, but the benefits, from an education and  PR standpoint, would go a long way to help users, especially new users and those  contemplating moving to this software. I think much of the confusion on "Saved Plan Views" (SPV's) could be avoided if CA put out a good video explaining why annotation sets are being replaced with SPV's (which do the same thing and much more as Steve mentioned) and how to set them up and use them. Many people are visual and a good video just might get the light bulb to light up on SPV's and eliminate some of the obvious confusion that still exists.

[skoz44]

SNestor,

If I don't assign an Annotation set to every Plan View then my arrows, text, callouts, etc won't go to the right layer.  Which means to turn on the text for the electrical plan will also turn on text for the Floor Plan.  What am I not understanding?

 

 

 

MarkMC

What do you mean that you use it for a working set and never send to layout.  What exactly do you do on your Working Set?

[bluesparrowllc]

I'm a new X12 user and, frankly, all these are immensely confusing.  I watched the vids but left more confused than I started.  The above summaries are helpful, and have been printed out, but I think most of us could still use a really good video.  Excuse me while I go to the Suggestions forum....

 

Thank you skoz44 for bringing this up!  I don't feel so alone anymore.

[dshall]

Well.......  if Steve Nestor doesn't do a vid,  I will volunteer.

 

Steve,  let me know if you want to do it....  or if somebody else will do it......

 

...... this is my final warning,  if you guys won't do it,  I will.

[SNestor]

10 minutes ago, skoz44 said:

SNestor,

If I don't assign an Annotation set to every Plan View then my arrows, text, callouts, etc won't go to the right layer.  Which means to turn on the text for the electrical plan will also turn on text for the Floor Plan.  What am I not understanding?

Well - let’s say you create a plan view for each floor plan...first, second...and possibly basement.  You can use the same anno/default set for all of these plans...you may want a unique cad layer. On the plan view you designate  which floor It is associated with. For each plan view you can open it and change any default and the plan view saves this setup...it’ll display “using active defaults”. So you know it’s not using one of your saved Anno/default sets. 

[HumbleChief]

56 minutes ago, skoz44 said:

SNestor,

If I don't assign an Annotation set to every Plan View then my arrows, text, callouts, etc won't go to the right layer.  Which means to turn on the text for the electrical plan will also turn on text for the Floor Plan.  What am I not understanding?

Agreed on the confusion as the above illustrates. Plans views don't need an Annotation Set 'assigned' to them and Plan Views actually get rid of the need for Anno sets, being replaced by active defaults. Again agreed on how confusing it all can get. If Chief were to design the interface again tomorrow there would probably be no more Anno Sets and just Plan Views with all the settings within those views.

[GeneDavis]

When anno sets were introduced it was the new hotness and designed to ease the job of setting up views for layout.

 

The cool and powerful feature of annosets was the layerset tie-in.  You could either choose to specify a layerset in an annoset, or leave it as "use active layerset."

 

I thought of it, and used it the "active" way and created annosets that "drove" views by opening up views with the specified layerset active, and having defaults all set up for text, dimensions, etc., plus the desired active CAD default set.

 

But now Plan Views supplants all that and brings in a technique where everything a "driving" annoset (one specifying a layerset) does, plus bringing in FLOOR specificity, and ZOOM, and reference layer choice.

 

So I'll ask the power users of Plan Views, are all your annosets now "passive," i.e., set to use active layerset, or otherwise?

[HumbleChief]

Here's an older video from one of many previous threads on Layers versus Anno versus Plan Views. Always best to have the smart guys re-do or improve but may be this will help?

 

 

[bluesparrowllc]

Thanks.  Just watched and followed along on my own plan. 

[skoz44]

Thanks Humble Chief.  So it appears that I don't even need to mess with my Annotation Sets any longer.  Set the defaults for them, then use Plan Views to control the views, what layers text goes to, etc.

 

Is this correct?

[SNestor]

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

So I'll ask the power users of Plan Views, are all your annosets now "passive," i.e., set to use active layerset, or otherwise?

 

Mine are a "mix"...I have some of my plan view defaults driven by an "annotation set"...but most are just passive. As soon as you change something...such as the reference layerset...your old link to the original "annotation set" disappears. If you have been using Anno sets to drive layersets for years...the "active defaults" statement can make your palms sweaty.  But - with plan views, you just ignore this. Or...just take the anno set toolbar off of your default toolbar....and keep the blood pressure stable.

 

[SNestor]

Just now, skoz44 said:

Is this correct?

 

This is correct...but, don't be afraid of using a basic annotation set to drive the defaults in Plan Views...it works either way. If you have annotation sets that drive layers sets already setup the way you want...then feel free to link these to a plan view.  

[Ridge_Runner]

3 minutes ago, SNestor said:

If you have been using Anno sets to drive layersets for years...the "active defaults" statement can make your palms sweaty

I think this may be part of the confusion (and fear?). Some may think the "active defaults" will go back to some OOB (out of box) original CA settings. The "active defaults" are simply the ones currently set. That's what annosets did - change the active defaults. But SPV's also do that and much more as has been mentioned - a lot.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

So I'll ask the power users of Plan Views, are all your annosets now "passive," i.e., set to use active layerset, or otherwise?

Not much of a power user but mostly passive 'active defaults' Gene as I've become accustomed to using and changing plan views. Another option, and one I just started using is the "Save New Default Set" button next to any active default that's currently in use. It means that any time you can take an 'active default being used and name it for future use.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

15 minutes ago, Ridge_Runner said:

I think this may be part of the confusion (and fear?). Some may think the "active defaults" will go back to some OOB (out of box) original CA settings. 

I think that's what I initially thought myself....really did not understand them - at all.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, SNestor said:

 

As soon as you change something...such as the reference layerset...your old link to the original "annotation set" disappears.

 

The subject is confusing enough and I don't mean to nit pick but I don't think this is accurate and I'm sure inadvertent but reference layers do not live within the active defaults and changing a ref layerset will not change your old link to the original Anno Set.

 

Reference sets live under the Plan View umbrella and have no effect on active defaults or a chosen Anno Set.

[SNestor]

6 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Reference sets live under the Plan View umbrella and have no effect on active defaults or a chosen Anno Set.

 

You are correct...I wasn't at my computer when I was pontificating.

 

Yea...if you have a plan view and the defaults are being driven by a saved annotation set...and you change any of the "defaults" in the plan view...you will lose the link to your saved annotation set...which of course makes perfect sense.

[HumbleChief]

1 minute ago, SNestor said:

 

You are correct...I wasn't at my computer when I was pontificating.

 

Yea...if you have a plan view and the defaults are being driven by a saved annotation set...and you change any of the "defaults" in the plan view...you will lose the link to your saved annotation set...which of course makes perfect sense.

I knew that's what you meant and helpful as always...

 

[glennw]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:57 PM, skoz44 said:

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

 

19 hours ago, dshall said:

yes.

 

I don't think this is 100% correct - there are some exceptions where having all 3 is not necessary.

Say I am on the level 1 plan and want to use my "Level 2 Bedroom" Saved Plan View to change to level 2 and zoom in to the Bedroom area.

I don't need a Default Set called "Level 2 Bedroom".

My normal Default Set for drawing in plan view (the one I use on level 1 plan) at that particular print scale will fit the bill just fine.

Under normal circumstances, we don't need different default sets (or layer sets) for different floor levels (or different zoom levels unless we are working on a different drawing scale detail).  

 

[dshall]

3 hours ago, glennw said:

 

 

I don't think this is 100% correct - there are some exceptions where having all 3 is not necessary.

Say I am on the level 1 plan and want to use my "Level 2 Bedroom" Saved Plan View to change to level 2 and zoom in to the Bedroom area.

I don't need a Default Set called "Level 2 Bedroom".

My normal Default Set for drawing in plan view (the one I use on level 1 plan) at that particular print scale will fit the bill just fine.

Under normal circumstances, we don't need different default sets (or layer sets) for different floor levels (or different zoom levels unless we are working on a different drawing scale detail).  

 

 

I can't think of an example to dispute your statement that a FRAMING LAYER SET might work for different levels,  or a FLOOR PLAN LAYER SET may work for different levels.  

 

I have unique LAYER SETS for each level because it hurts my head thinking about the exceptions.

 

I also have unique ref sets for each PVS for the same reason.