Michael_Gia

Bought a new MacBook Pro 16” Chief still doesn’t perform.

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Ok, so I’ve been having problems since X10 with Chief being very sluggish especially in elevation and cross section views. Program even crashes when trying to pan in an elevation view. 
 

So as you can see in my signature, my MacBook is quite old so I just bought the new MacBook Pro, 16 inch. 

 

16 gigs of ram, 8-Core, 1TB storage, etc...  

 

I still have the same sluggish performance as mentioned above. 
 

Generating a 3D view and orbiting around is faster than before but elevation and cross section views are only marginally less sluggish. 
 

Yes, I’ve called tech support and they’ve been no help. 
 

I don’t know why they don’t just admit that they have problems with performance in the macOS Environmennt? Instead they give me the old “it must be your outdated laptop” excuse. Hence the new purchase. 

 

I really don’t want to go back to Windows at this point but I might have to. 

 

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RayTrace is about 6 times faster though so there’s that...

 

Not what I really need but it does confirm that it’s not a hardware issue but a software issue. I think?

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I have a 5 year old iMac...no problems.  Well...a little bit slow...but hey, it's 5 years old.  Sounds to me like something else is wrong...but, I'm no computer expert.

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I don't have a mac, but here's a couple of things that you should consider:

  1. Pan & Zoom performance is Video Card dependent
  2. Video Card may not be configured correctly.  More information needed.
  3. High numbers of surfaces (3D plants, etc) will be much slower.
  4. Ray Trace is CPU and RAM dependent and have nothing to do with general performance of Chief.
  5. Excessive use of macros and schedules in Plan Views and/or Elevations will slow performance.
  6. It's best to keep those things in CAD Detail Windows.

If you could post a typical Project that you consider slow, it would be much easier to determine what the problem might be.

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Thanks all, but the main slow down is panning around in an elevation view or cross section view.  I have to go back to doing my elevation annotations in a cad detail window which just seems like a step back.  Other than that the performance of the new Mac is snappier for 3D orbiting and Raytrace, unfortunately I need to create construction docs more than anything else.  The 3D for me is just a visual aid for my clients and for me to verify that stuff is fitting together properly.

 

I'm just letting everyone know that Chief is not yet optimized to work on a Mac anymore.  I'm hoping they fix that.

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Michael,

 

What do your elevation annotations consist of?  

  • Text
  • Rich Text
  • Macros

It makes a difference.

Evaluated macros drastically slow down pan & zoom because they are evaluated repeatedly during the pan/zoom operations.  I've reported this several months ago - maybe it will be fixed in X12.  We can hope.

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2 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

I'm just letting everyone know that Chief is not yet optimized to work on a Mac anymore.  I'm hoping they fix that.

 

Chief is optimized fine for me. I use a Mac Mini Late 2014 with 8 GB RAM and on-board Intel graphics, driving two 24" monitors. Probably the weakest system possible to run X11. I can pan around elevations and cross sections with no problem, pretty much real-time except for normal jitters. Orbiting around 3D views is also snappy. Never crashes (knock on wood). Never.

 

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Another thing to consider is what Render Mode are your elevations?  

  • Standard & Physically Based will be fast.  ---   Graphics Card
  • Vector, Line Drawing, Technical Illustration will be slower  ---  CPU (software)

The difference is what hardware is being used.  Graphics cards are fast.  Software depends on the CPU performing calculations and sending data to the display. 

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My elevations are fast whether vector or standard. I don't see PBR as a display option on elevations.

 

All of my display tasks are handled by an onboard graphics chip in a puny 2.6 GHz i5 dual core processor.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with Chief running on a Mac.

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15 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

My elevations are fast whether vector or standard.

Vector is only slightly slower than Standard.  But there is a difference.  I'm not sure if this is being handled by the Graphics processor or not - but there's a little more involved in creating the vectors than just displaying the surfaces.

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5 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

I'm just letting everyone know that Chief is not yet optimized to work on a Mac anymore.

 

It maybe more of an issue with AMD Graphics not being optimised in Catalina yet , I was working with someone On Friday on his new MAC and it was slow in catching/staying up to us in 3D , slow enough to make us think we'd missed the Ok button a few times. If it were a PC I say try upgrading the AMD Driver but I am not sure that is an Option on MAC OS?

 

Perhaps Chief isn't Optimised for Catalina either ? no idea , sorry not a MAC user.

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9 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Another thing to consider is what Render Mode are your elevations?  

  • Standard & Physically Based will be fast.  ---   Graphics Card
  • Vector, Line Drawing, Technical Illustration will be slower  ---  CPU (software)

The difference is what hardware is being used.  Graphics cards are fast.  Software depends on the CPU performing calculations and sending data to the display. 

I use Standard render mode, no macros, only rich text, lines and dimensions of course with story pole dimensions. 
 

I have shadows on. 
 

3000 square foot homes, two stories.  I keep all lights off.

 

Here’s a screen shot...

 

 

 

 

72F718AE-5276-49F8-8136-DC576E8CD159.jpeg

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Quite fast for me as well.  No problems in Mac OS (Catalina) on a 2018 MacBook Pro. 

 

It's not necessarily the size of the structure you're designing, either.  One of my current projects is a 10,000sf addition to a 5,600sf existing home, and Chief holds up well, even in that environment. 

 

Your problem may be an ugly build-up of mold, mildew, and plaque.  That is, you may be dragging along a lot of content in your files, and you might need to do some housecleaning in your favorite plan files, especially if you use those as models, templates, or starters for new plans.  Also, a lot of performance issues involve what you've asked the software to keep up with, like open camera tabs, or live updates in open layouts, or automatic regeneration of framing, terrain, etc.  I keep my house pretty clean and, other than some dust bunnies that get caught in my socks sometimes, I'm never frustrated by a dirty environment.  There are some pretty good housecleaning techniques that might help you regain control.

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8 hours ago, KTransue said:

Quite fast for me as well.  No problems in Mac OS (Catalina) on a 2018 MacBook Pro. 

 

It's not necessarily the size of the structure you're designing, either.  One of my current projects is a 10,000sf addition to a 5,600sf existing home, and Chief holds up well, even in that environment. 

 

Your problem may be an ugly build-up of mold, mildew, and plaque.  That is, you may be dragging along a lot of content in your files, and you might need to do some housecleaning in your favorite plan files, especially if you use those as models, templates, or starters for new plans.  Also, a lot of performance issues involve what you've asked the software to keep up with, like open camera tabs, or live updates in open layouts, or automatic regeneration of framing, terrain, etc.  I keep my house pretty clean and, other than some dust bunnies that get caught in my socks sometimes, I'm never frustrated by a dirty environment.  There are some pretty good housecleaning techniques that might help you regain control.

Would you be willing to send me your plan and I’ll send you mine so we could compare how sluggish or not sluggish they are? Because if it is legacy stuff in Chief then we actually have a bigger problem because that’s not normal. 

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Ok, so I’ve been having problems since X10 with Chief being very sluggish especially in elevation and cross section views. Program even crashes when trying to pan in an elevation view. 

 

If the program is crashing when you are panning, than this is a far more serious issue then just a performance problem.  Does the program crash in a predictable and repeatable way?  Does it crash on both your old and your new machine?  Does it crash with a brand new, relatively simple plan or just with one or more particular plans?  Did you report this problem to technical support? 

 

As far as your performance problems are concerned, my best guess is that it is actually something in your plan causing the problems and not your hardware.  It may be related to whatever it is that is causing the crashes or it could be something completely different.  Someone here would need to do some low level performance analysis on the plan to give you anything more definitive.

 

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41 minutes ago, Dermot said:

 

If the program is crashing when you are panning, than this is a far more serious issue then just a performance problem.  Does the program crash in a predictable and repeatable way?  Does it crash on both your old and your new machine?  Does it crash with a brand new, relatively simple plan or just with one or more particular plans?  Did you report this problem to technical support? 

 

As far as your performance problems are concerned, my best guess is that it is actually something in your plan causing the problems and not your hardware.  It may be related to whatever it is that is causing the crashes or it could be something completely different.  Someone here would need to do some low level performance analysis on the plan to give you anything more definitive.

 

Thanks for the response. 
 

The new machine has not crashed yet but it’s sluggish when panning in an elevation, although a little less sluggish than the old machine.  As the photo shows it’s a pretty big house but nothing crazy.  The problem is consistent. The bigger the plan the more sluggish it is. 
 

I’ve reported this to tech support. It’s the reason I eventually but the new machine.  
 

It’s very peculiar that the problem is only apparent in elevation panning and not 3D model orbiting. 
 

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7 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

It’s very peculiar that the problem is only apparent in elevation panning and not 3D model orbiting.

That would indicate something specific to the elevation.  It could be:

  • Annotations
  • Dimensions
  • Auto Update / Live Elevations

Try turning off the Annotation and Dimension Layers.  Also try turning off Live Elevations, etc.

 

Depending on the text styles the system may have to regenerate the text, etc as you pan/zoom.

 

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2 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

That would indicate something specific to the elevation.  It could be:

  • Annotations
  • Dimensions
  • Auto Update / Live Elevations

Try turning off the Annotation and Dimension Layers.  Also try turning off Live Elevations, etc.

 

I’m talking about elevations in plan view not layout. Or is there some “live view” toggle in plan?

 

I’ll try turning of dimensions and isolate just the model and see what effect that has. 
 

thanks!

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Hi Michael,

 

I do notice a bit of jerkiness when panning in Elevation Views.  I find it advantageous to use the "Marque Zoom Tool" instead of the mouse.

 

Also, if you zoom to extents and save the active camera then you may have less pan and zoom to do.

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Thanks for the tip. The zoom tool helps, otherwise I have to wait for the mouse drag to catch up only to find I’m not anywhere near where I wanted to be. 

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So I don’t have as much time using the software as I started with Chief with x10 (hdpro before that). But I have been using two separate machines since I started.  First was with hdpro exclusively with a MacBook Air and had no problems.  Upgraded to a 2018 MacBook Pro with 8gb ram and I use an external egpu when at my desk.  From x10 to X11 on the same machine I noticed extreme differences in speed of especially panning.  When I upgraded for the first two weeks it would constantly crash if I tried to do a 2nd overview or elevation view (even closing the first before starting the second time it would crash constantly.). Something worked out (I am guessing it was a OS X update.). I no longer get as many crashes although they do occur still occasionally but usually after some time of working with a plan and doing lots of different views.  I am hoping it is something that is happening with OS X to get it fixed.  
 

One weird thing that happened yesterday is I got a pop up while working in a layout saying that layout will soon be incompatible with OS X as it is a 32bit program...  it made it look like layout was a separate program running???  But I believe Chief is a 64 anyways so I haven’t reported it yet.  
 

one thing that I did notice and may help a little is that if my auto Time machine starts running in the background it will extremely slow down not just chief but also two other on-screen takeoff programs I use for construction estimating.  May help to check if it is running when you experience the issues?

 

Feel your pain and I am hopeful it will get worked out!

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Yep 1st thought I had was turn off all labels in the Elevation view and it helps , but I'm not 100% convinced yet if there isn't some other issues or not , certainly making my PC work , so not sure it is MAC related ..... mouse was all over the place and 1/2 out of control in the elevation view till I turned Labels off though.

 

PS. X11 is a bit slower in general than X10.

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2 hours ago, Dermot said:

It's the framing and their labels.  Turn them off.

Thank you Dermot that made a world of difference. 
 

I forgot that framing was on. 
I also noticed I had every label under the sun turned on. So, I turned off all labels except window labels and this improved 80%. 
 

 

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