4hotshoez Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Normally I would show dashed lines for shelves on an interior elevation behind cabinet doors. I do not see a way in layers to do this. How is this done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 with cad lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Really? What is the point of Chief automatically building them if there is no option to see them without glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Todd: I think that question needs to be directed to Chief Architect. Perhaps you could make a suggestion including one or more images of what you would like the program to do. My cabinet elevations are busy enough right now for me and I think adding the display of shelf locations behind cabinet doors is something I wouldn't use without a real good reason to do it. I do my cabinet elevations at 1/2" scale and when you include dimensions and some labeling of fixtures and appliances along with all the cabinet labels, the real estate gets pretty crowded. Perhaps a larger scale wouldn't be so bad for the display of shelf locations but that means more sheets to the drawing set. I think that if showing the shelf locations for individual cabinets is important to you and/or your customers, that you can provide that information via sections through the cabinet(s). The reality of Chief is that it really isn't a cabinet design program although it allows us to do a decent job of presenting cabinet layouts and options for our projects. There have been many threads over the years on this and/or similar discussions about cabinets. Maybe someday Chief will include what you are wanting, but who knows when and if that will happen any time soon. By the way, I think your photo looks just fine. I just wish Scott was as good looking as Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 ........ I just wish Scott was as good looking as Joe. Hey you, have you seen Joe lately? I saw him yesterday, he looks like a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 BTW, after 3 holes I was up by 6 strokes..... let's just leave it there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Scott, You must have seen my Brother-in-Law. He's only 4 months older than I am but looks at least 20 years older. BTW, I was thinking about the County's not requiring us to upgrade T-24, Non-conforming Railings and lack of Fire Sprinklers during the rebuild/repair after the fire last December. OTOH, they insisted on conforming to the 2003 code upgrades for "Fire Blocking" and "Draft Stops" - and then wanted "Mechanical Heat" - not just "Ventilation" in all the downstairs Bath - but say that everything else is "Grandfathered" Selective Code Enforcement ? How does that make any sense? IAE, I hope they don't decide later that we have to do those upgrades. That would cost a fortune to do later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I once worked for the RR and some wrecks don't look toooo bad while admittedly, others are "pretty BAD"...! I met with Joe in Las Vegas at the IBS and unless he's changed drastically, I can't imagine him looking like a train wreck. You didn't hit him with your wedge, did you? In golf, Scott, having 6 more strokes than your playing partner isn't necessarily so good. Keep your head down when you swing for crying out loud! You can catch Joe if you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Todd: My cabinet elevations are busy enough right now for me and I think adding the display of shelf locations behind cabinet doors is something I wouldn't use without a real good reason to do it. I do my cabinet elevations at 1/2" scale and when you include dimensions and some labeling of fixtures and appliances along with all the cabinet labels, the real estate gets pretty crowded. Perhaps a larger scale wouldn't be so bad for the display of shelf locations but that means more sheets to the drawing set. In commercial architecture we did 1/4" scale elevations with shelves dashed as standard. We also did 1 1/2" scale detailed sections through cabinets to show dims. It would be nice to have the option to show what Chief so carefully builds for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Thought this might work, a variation on what I do to get dimensioned openings. Create all your elevations. Make a layerset that has all cabinets as dotted lines and shows nothing else. Save plan, group select wall cabinets and change doors to openings, do the same for base cabinets. Shoot elevations and for each one "CAD detail from view" Now "Save as" a different name. Go to cad of first elevation and ctrl+A -select all, copy go back to original plan and first elevation, then ctrl+alt+v -paste and hold position continue as needed. I didn't clear everything from the layerset for the attached but you get the idea. The plan elevation ghosts the dotted lines around the cabinet and is a bit messy. Once in layout it looks fine as image shows. I'd likely place the cads on a their own separate layer to avoid confusion. Naturally this is not live so needs to be a final touch. But easier and faster than drawing them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Very clever Mark. Nice going. But I bet having horizontal cad lines at correct height that you can copy and paste from elevation to elevation would be quicker. Use trim and extend tools to quickly adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 You may be right Scott- could keep all variations of height in a detail in the library ( I keep a plan with molding stacks at different heights, same idea). But I can't get lines to trim to cabinets in elevation so would still end up in CAD for the final view if you want to use the trim tool or adding a lot of lines to trim too. It's not something I'd be doing- thought of it as I already need to go to cad to dimensions cabinet parts (especially insets) so if I really had to I'd be half way there to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Then there are roll out trays, and trash pullouts, and spice pullouts, and all the other stuff hidden behind doors and drawers. If Chief is going to enhance the software to show simple shelves, they should go beyond that so that cabinet elevations can show all the other items. Are there NKBA standards for the way all this is shown? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Then there are roll out trays, and trash pullouts, and spice pullouts, and all the other stuff hidden behind doors and drawers. If Chief is going to enhance the software to show simple shelves, they should go beyond that so that cabinet elevations can show all the other items. Are there NKBA standards for the way all this is shown? I don't know. NKBA doesn't ask that they be shown. I call out accessories in a numbered item list which is much like the NKBA standard. Some folks include codes in labels but that can get really messy if there are a lot of mods and accessories in a cabinet. Since shelves are usually standard in qty and always adjustable (in my world) I only call out if there are extras. Sometimes I list qty. in the overall cabinet spec. 2020 has the ability to show roll outs, and just about any accessory in a cabinet BUT it doesn't show the interiors in elevation. It does however let you show doors open or closed in 3D (they also show in wireframe). A few of the better 2020 catalogs allow you to show pull outs/accessories extended in and out in 3D-most users wouldn't know how to do it (or that it exists). I don't miss any of that, CA is my goto for now, only use 2020 for down and dirty or quick ballpark price...a few other things more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 The bad thing about not being able see the shelves that are in the cabinets on an elevation, is that I still need to make sure they are correct or missing when I cut a section through them and the section is now different from the elevation I drew manually. And if I make a change to the cabinet height we are back to the problem of 2D Autocad: Conflicting information prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builtright3 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm not an expert on cabinets but what about the "Glass Hose" view? I know it shows the shelving in the cabinets but I don't know how that would exactly help you. You can put in a extra page just for the view to see what in the cabinets. Not sure, just a thought. I guess the glass house option could help you to quickly draw your cad lines maybe. I will use the name Joey seeing how we already have a Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Is there perhaps a way to put just the shelves on their own layer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm not an expert on cabinets but what about the "Glass Hose" view? I know it shows the shelving in the cabinets but I don't know how that would exactly help you. You can put in a extra page just for the view to see what in the cabinets. Not sure, just a thought. I guess the glass house option could help you to quickly draw your cad lines maybe. I will use the name Joey seeing how we already have a Joe Nice idea, Joe, but the issue would be to distinguish between glass doors and solid doors among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 This is one of the few things I would relegate to CAD. Generally however I just put the information in the Components dbx as a comment or Sub Category. It can then be shown in the Cabinet Schedule. IMO it's best to create this kind of detail once and add the Cabinet to your User Library. That way it's available for future use and you can save all the hassle the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Does anyone know where the default for the auto-generated cabinet shelf spacing can be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Here: Then click on the manual bullet to adjust the spacing and number of shelves yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hotshoez Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Curt, there are numbers that Chief uses to automatically place shelves in cabinets, are you saying that we do not have access to changing what Chief uses for automatic calculations? Thus we must manually adjust every cabinet that we place? Or does setting the manual also set the automatic setting? Not clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Go and examine it in your default settings. Base cabinet example. Out of the box, Chief has the opening behind the door set to one shelf, placed at center, meaning equal spaces above and below the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Todd: Chief does have a number of "hard-coded" values left over from the old days they are trying to eliminate them in favor of dbx settings but there are still some .... Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think Gene and Lew answered your question. One thing you might consider doing is creating some of your own cabinet spec's for the different types of cabinets which can include shelf numbers, spacing, etc. Each can have its own materials etc. Then save each to your My Cabinets library for future use in your projects. This could save you a chunk of time in editing Chief's default cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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