Layout & Layer Sets

[AndreaKDC]

I'm having issues keeping my electrical plan separate from my floorpan, and vice versa.  When I change which layer set I'm working in it seems to affect my layout view.  Page 1 of my layout is supposed to be the Electrical Plan, Page 2 is the supposed to be the floorpan (with no electrical on it), and the same order for pages 6 and 7.  I've used chief for a while, but I'm new to X10- is there a change to X10 that is causing this?  Help needed!

Archive.zip

[tommy1]

Andrea, if you still need help (free), feel free to contact me at 832-754-6160. Just helped a new person on this topic. I'll do an online meeting and get you going okay. BTW, as mentioned, saved plans can really throw you off with layouts too.

[builtright3]

8 hours ago, AndreaKDC said:

I'm having issues keeping my electrical plan separate from my floorpan, and vice versa.  When I change which layer set I'm working in it seems to affect my layout view.  Page 1 of my layout is supposed to be the Electrical Plan, Page 2 is the supposed to be the floorpan (with no electrical on it), and the same order for pages 6 and 7.  I've used chief for a while, but I'm new to X10- is there a change to X10 that is causing this?  Help needed!

Archive.zip

 

I'm a little reluctant to say this because whenever someone sends me in a whole new direction I get stressed out. As I looked at your layer sets I see myself a few years ago when I had a lot of issues with layer sets. It was strongly suggested to me by a few people on this forum to learn how to use annotation sets. Reluctantly I went ahead and spent about a week learning and setting them up and It ended up being the best thing I ever did, because once layers are set they hold well and you stay consistent. Saves me a lot of time and aggravation.

Thanks to people like Perry, Joe C, Tommy and a few others. They helped me through it and I'm very great full to them. Made a huge difference in my productivity and constancy. I don't think you will take as long as I did to set it up because I'm a slow learner and I want everything perfect so I'm my own worst enemy at times unless you share my same qualities LOL!!

You can set up an annotation set quickly once you understand it. 

[lbuttery]

X10 also introduced the Plansets feature

 

so that may be causing some of these issues

 

review your Plansets defauts and or preferences

 

I am sticking with X9 so I have no experience with Plansets - but they do sound interesting

 

Lew

[Kbird1]

On 2/5/2019 at 4:48 PM, AndreaKDC said:

I'm having issues keeping my electrical plan separate from my floorpan, and vice versa.  When I change which layer set I'm working in it seems to affect my layout view.  Page 1 of my layout is supposed to be the Electrical Plan, Page 2 is the supposed to be the floorpan (with no electrical on it), and the same order for pages 6 and 7.  I've used chief for a while, but I'm new to X10- is there a change to X10 that is causing this?  Help needed!

Archive.zip

 

I think, as Eric mentioned, that some of the pages eg 1&2 have been sent to Layout with the Plan Views Option set to one of your Saved Plan View Sets , if you change that to None, you can set the Annotation Set instead and you should find they don't change. Personally I don't use "Make a Copy of the Active Layerset" Option either.

 

But I see your Electrical Annotation Set does not automatically switch you to the Electrical Layer Set , which could be the Issue as currently it is set to use the Active Layerset. Personally I am not "fond" of the "Active Layerset" and make a Matching Layerset for each Annotation Set to help keep things straight. ie I use the Annotation Set to also Switch Layerset ...or "the Annoset is King" method as I have seen some call it here, By default CA does not do this but there is already a Layerset made for each Default Annoset, so it is easy to setup. I also set the Scaled Annotation Sets to use the Working Layerset , as I find the Active Layerset can really confuse things..for me anyway. This doesn't stop you using Special Layersets as you Draw or Work if desired by just clicking on them. Once you have it working as you want in this Plan/Layout , make sure to export the Annotation and Layersets and Import them into your Template Plan for New Projects too , so you will always have them.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-01167/setting-up-a-custom-annotation-set-and-importing-it-into-another-file.html

 

[Alaskan_Son]

Just a side note here, but if you’re fully and properly implementing Plan Views, annotation sets and their optional control over the layer set really become redundant.  The plan view will remember all your desired Active Defaults (this was essentially the sole purpose of annotation sets) and your layer set.  I don’t even have an annotation set drop down in my toolbar anymore.  It’s pretty well pointless now IMO unless you’re choosing not to make use of Plan Views.  

[Ridge_Runner]

7 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

but if you’re fully and properly implementing Plan Views, annotation sets and their optional control over the layer set really become redundant.

I noticed this very quickly when I began using X10. I am about to remove my Annoset from the drop-down menu also. Annosets were a lifesaver for condocs and keeping everything moving and consistent. Planviews took that to a new level. The ability to switch not only the layerset but also the floor used for the view and the reference set used with one click is great. Still haven't wrapped my mind around all the things I can do with planviews but they are worth the effort to set them up right. Now, if I can just stop switching the annoset or layerset like I did before (while in a saved planview) I will be much more proficient.

[Kbird1]

23 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Just a side note here, but if you’re fully and properly implementing Plan Views, annotation sets and their optional control over the layer set really become redundant.  The plan view will remember all your desired Active Defaults (this was essentially the sole purpose of annotation sets) and your layer set.  I don’t even have an annotation set drop down in my toolbar anymore.  It’s pretty well pointless now IMO unless you’re choosing not to make use of Plan Views.  

 

Quite true , but I had a feeling Andrea is not, and in all honesty I am not fully utilising it myself yet either , in fact this Thread has me watching a Few Videos again on it (below).

 

I am not even sure Andrea is fully Utilising Annosets , ie "the old way" , so baby steps would be a good start as Joe pointed out above, certainly made things easier for me.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2421/saved-plan-views.html

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2433/developing-saved-plan-views.html

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

10 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

I am not even sure Andrea is fully Utilising Annosets , ie "the old way" , so baby steps would be a good start as Joe pointed out above, certainly made things easier for me.

 

IMO, teaching annosets at this point in the game only adds unnecessary complication.  My primary focus when teaching new users is to first get them to understand layers and layersets...followed by Active Defaults...followed by a very brief description of how annosets are nothing more than a way to change Active Defaults as a group.  I put VERY LITTLE emphasis on anno sets since they’re really not necessary anymore.  I place emphasis on using Plan Views to change all that stuff.  No point in teaching someone how to use a tool that they’ll stop using in step 2 of their learning curve.  Yes, tell them what it is and how it works, but I wouldn’t recommend using annosets as a baby step.  No reason IMO not to jump directly to Plan Views.  

 

When setting up new plans and templates from scratch now, I don’t use anno sets AT ALL.  In fact, I would personal be totally fine with it if Chief removed them from the program entirely.  I guess they could still be handy when creating new Plan Views but only in a pretty minor way.  

 

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on that subject.  

[lbuttery]

before annosets were introduced in X4 EVERYTHING was done with layers and layersets

 

annosets just made all of that more convenient

 

interesting to hear that annosets have now been made "Moot" by plansets

 

since I retired about the time of X4 I have never used annosets or plansets

 

good to know that if I ever do need to I will jump right to plansets

 

Lew

[tommy1]

Sorry but I use annotation sets linked to layer sets. To each his own.

[Evolution]

I went through **** until I caught on to Layer Sets linked to Annosets.  I'll study Plan sets more to see if it will help me to work more efficiently. Right now all my templates that have been built (and in the process of updating) I am setting up with Layer Sets and Annosets linked.  I have only had a couple of occasions (although I don't know why it happened) that I've switched annosets while working on a discipline specific layer, and the Layer set linked to the same anno didn't automatically switch at the same time. Now I make it a habit, when I change the Annoset, to make sure my layer set has changed or I change it manually to match my Annoset. 

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Just a side note here, but if you’re fully and properly implementing Plan Views, annotation sets and their optional control over the layer set really become redundant.  The plan view will remember all your desired Active Defaults (this was essentially the sole purpose of annotation sets) and your layer set.  I don’t even have an annotation set drop down in my toolbar anymore.  It’s pretty well pointless now IMO unless you’re choosing not to make use of Plan Views.  

+1000

[Renerabbitt]

39 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

IMO, teaching annosets at this point in the game only adds unnecessary complication.  My primary focus when teaching new users is to first get them to understand layers and layersets...followed by Active Defaults...followed by a very brief description of how annosets are nothing more than a way to change Active Defaults as a group.  I put VERY LITTLE emphasis on anno sets since they’re really not necessary anymore.  I place emphasis on using Plan Views to change all that stuff.  No point in teaching someone how to use a tool that they’ll stop using in step 2 of their learning curve.  Yes, tell them what it is and how it works, but I wouldn’t recommend using annosets as a baby step.  No reason IMO not to jump directly to Plan Views.  

 

When setting up new plans and templates from scratch now, I don’t use anno sets AT ALL.  In fact, I would personal be totally fine with it if Chief removed them from the program entirely.  I guess they could still be handy when creating new Plan Views but only in a pretty minor way.  

 

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on that subject.  

I hearted that one, but I will say that I like annotation sets for the fact that I can use them to quickly draw CAD or text notes on a specified layer from the anno set while remaining in the same layer set- such as red line comments or a specific detail that I want in just 2 of my plan views per se. Yes you could accomplish that with plan views but that would really pump up the number of plan views and I feel its cleaner this way.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

IMO, teaching annosets at this point in the game only adds unnecessary complication.  My primary focus when teaching new users is to first get them to understand layers and layersets...followed by Active Defaults...followed by a very brief description of how annosets are nothing more than a way to change Active Defaults as a group.  I put VERY LITTLE emphasis on anno sets since they’re really not necessary anymore.  I place emphasis on using Plan Views to change all that stuff.  No point in teaching someone how to use a tool that they’ll stop using in step 2 of their learning curve.  Yes, tell them what it is and how it works, but I wouldn’t recommend using annosets as a baby step.  No reason IMO not to jump directly to Plan Views.  

 

When setting up new plans and templates from scratch now, I don’t use anno sets AT ALL.  In fact, I would personal be totally fine with it if Chief removed them from the program entirely.  I guess they could still be handy when creating new Plan Views but only in a pretty minor way.  

 

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on that subject.  

Hey Michael,

 

Curious about your comment above and love the idea if it truly simplifies things but I was just exploring Plan Views and it looks like there's a drop down >Annotation Set>Currently Using: and can't seem to find a way to use an Anno Set in that drop down that does not choose the Layer Set as set up in that currently selected Anno set?

 

Without using Anno Sets, which is what I am reading you are suggesting, how are they by-passed within this drop down?

 

Thanks and hope you're well...

 

 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

IMO, teaching annosets at this point in the game only adds unnecessary complication.  My primary focus when teaching new users is to first get them to understand layers and layersets...followed by Active Defaults...followed by a very brief description of how annosets are nothing more than a way to change Active Defaults as a group.  I put VERY LITTLE emphasis on anno sets since they’re really not necessary anymore.  I place emphasis on using Plan Views to change all that stuff.  No point in teaching someone how to use a tool that they’ll stop using in step 2 of their learning curve.  Yes, tell them what it is and how it works, but I wouldn’t recommend using annosets as a baby step.  No reason IMO not to jump directly to Plan Views.  

 

When setting up new plans and templates from scratch now, I don’t use anno sets AT ALL.  In fact, I would personal be totally fine with it if Chief removed them from the program entirely.  I guess they could still be handy when creating new Plan Views but only in a pretty minor way.  

 

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on that subject.  

 

I don't disagree mostly..., but I wouldn't call advising linking a 1/2 doz Annos and with their Layset Set exactly Teaching....I usually do it for anyone I help here or 1 on 1, if they haven't already done it. But, if I was learning Chief new in X10 , I would likely do it the same way you are teaching, but for alot of people, they have come up through the "Ranks" and are used to the Old way and it just takes a While to work through the new Features and incorporate them in Daily usage. Some of us, like Bob and myself, started with HD Products where there weren't any Annosets etc, and Like Bob it took me a while to even incorporate Annosets into my Workflow, as I had "learnt" to it all a different way, but linked Annosets/Layersets is worth the time and effort for sure.

 

Not sure how Plan Views would work without Annosets though?  since every Plan View seems to reference one , but as noted I am no expert on Plan Views

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

6 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Not sure how Plan Views would work without Annosets though?  since every Plan View seems to reference one...

 A better worded version of my question above...

[Kbird1]

7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

 A better worded version of my question above...

 

I guess we'll be "Schooled" together then .

 

I may need to dig deeper but so far I only found the two Videos  I linked above....

 

M.

[builtright3]

10 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I guess we'll be "Schooled" together then .

 

I may need to dig deeper but so far I only found the two Videos  I linked above....

 

M.

The program has came a long way since I started using it in 2004. Sounds like annosets are old school according to what Im reading here.

[Kbird1]

4 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

The program has came a long way since I started using it in 2004. Sounds like annosets are old school according to what Im reading here.

 

Yes Annosets came in X4 I think I read......I had HD Pro back then, so no Annosets anyway, but I was referring to Videos On Plan Views though which were new in X10

[tommy1]

Well, I know I'm getting up there in years so I must be "old schooled" which is fine. Using layer sets with annotation sets works fine for me to do plans here. I've always thought that people should use the program as they want and you can bank that not everyone will agree with you. Using layer sets and annotation sets is not an improper way to use the program. 

 

Andrea, I bet you're even more confused now than ever. Bet you didn't see this coming. Just so you know, my offer is still good if interested. There's plenty of people you could contact.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, tommy1 said:

 

Andrea, I bet you're even more confused now than ever. Bet you didn't see this coming. Just so you know, my offer is still good if interested. There's plenty of people you could contact

 

Well I hope we haven't frightened Andrea off , and more importantly haven't totally confused Her.

 

wouldn't say we were totally Off Topic , but the discussion has taken a slight via.......

 

I agree with you Tommy , there is no need to Plan Views at all , and each to his own......

 

I was just personally looking into Plan Views more in case it did work for me....

 

 

M. 

[Ridge_Runner]

8 minutes ago, tommy1 said:

Using layer sets and annotation sets is not an improper way to use the program. 

Absolutely true. I worked with the annosets driving the layersets and defaults for years; loved the way they worked together. I put off updating to X10 for several months; I was covered up in work and didn't want to take the time to learn the new features. But the idea of the planviews intrigued me, as well as the new PBR. When I finally upgraded to X10 (SSA was paid up) I immediately implemented the planviews; haven't been disappointed (yet). One click and I can switch not only layersets but the floor at the same time without having to manually change it; great time saver.

[builtright3]

Sorry!! I seemed to have opened a can of worms with suggesting she learn the annoset approach. Actually I take that back, I like to stir things up! I learn more that way!!

 

[Renerabbitt]

With plan views you can truly use the .plan file to create con docs including your title blocks...making it easy to say- organize a 1":10' site plan or a 1/4 scale floor plan and place them exactly as you see fit- only using the .layout file as a PDF compiler-as it really should be.