DMIAF1

Hourly Pricing Help

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I am trying to collect some information if you all are willing to help me! We are trying to bid out a project for a development of condominiums that are about  2,000 - 2,400 sq feet, 3 - 4 bedroom & baths. Reasonable how long do you think designing a space of this size should take? I will be creating full plans with it being fully decorated and furnished. 
 
Additionally, can you please help me with pricing. I know everyone will be at a different price point but in general what are most designers charging per hour for a fully planned rendering and walk-through in Chief?? 
 
Any help you are able to provide would be so helpful! 
Thank you so much in advanced. 

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Are you an architect?  The project you are describing sounds like you will be subject to the IBC - not IRC.  This type of project requires an architect to be intimately involved through the process.  Its not a matter of "post-design" getting your engineer to review the plans and calling it good.  An Architect may sign off (sometimes) on a home here and there that might require an architectural seal, but its unimaginable that would happen on a "development of condominiums".

 

The IBC is a completely different ballgame that requires stringent design adherence through all phases.  In this day and age its not something you can just wing, and we've been called into clean up several "messes" by designers thinking they could.  Trust me, it didn't end well for the designer.

 

Just a fair warning...

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It's not really clear what you are proposing to do -- whether full design from scratch, or just walk-throughs and renderings of someone else's design. For most of us, the term "full plans" means full construction plans, with details. Maybe you are just intending to mean full "interior plans" based on your ownership of Interiors X9? In addition to Johnny's concerns, I would be concerned that if you really don't have any place to start estimating your time, then you are likely to be in way over your head. 

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I'm thinking they are asking about interior decorating, and not creating Construction Documents.

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I think you misunderstood my question Johnny... 

 

The architectural side of the project has already been completed. I will be taking the structural drawings and designs provided from them and converting them into my chief to input the finishes and furnishings.  I was trying to get an idea from fellow designers how much they are charging on an hourly basis for that service or how long it would take them to complete a job of that size. 

 

But thanks... 

 

 

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Pricing is a tough question to answer. It's often regional, depends on your reputation, depends on how bad you want the job, depends on how much you need to make, how much you want to make etc.

 

I imagine you will spend a good amount of time sourcing symbols, maybe working with them in SketchUp or other programs prior to importing into Chief. Time that's difficult to predict.

 

Have you done this type of work before? Have a history to help estimate time? If not, consider doing 1 unit on your own time to help estimate the overall effort.

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This is a little like asking, "How much does a car cost?"  Are you talking about full interior design services? (Coming up with furniture layouts? Trim details? Coordinating finishes? Sourcing products? Lighting plans, purchase management, etc.) Or just throwing some generic furniture and accessories into some simple Chief models? And how complex is the model to be built -- multiple levels, weird roofs, complex terrain? There is no information to go on. How long would it take? HIGHLY depends on your skill level, number of different units, etc. How much to charge? You don't even say what part of the country you are in. So, probably somewhere between $10/hr. and $200/hr. There is no "standard." 

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My contracts listed four price levels : bronze, silver, gold, platinum

 

each level specified the level of detail to be applied to the "decorating" etc

 

bronze was out of the box lights, window furnishings doors cabinets etc

maybe 1 or 2 custom symbols that were charged extra

 

silver - a little more custom

 

gold - a lot more custom

 

platinum - just about everything was custom

 

translation $ - $$$$

 

we were newbies so we charged $50/hr and collected a retainer for 8 hrs

then as we worked that down we sent pics and a running balance to the client

 

then collect another retainer if they are satisfied

 

$50 was reasonable in 2006 era and the Wash DC metro area

 

with experience/reputation we could have grown to $100/hr

 

so it depends on your location - what are licensed plumbers/electricians etc getting in your area

 

Lew

 

 

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Thanks Lew,

 

Certainly you guys can give a straight answer without being above it all!

 

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Discussing fees and money is always a very personal subject some folks don't like openly discussing.

I can understand that.

 

I also agree that it is difficult to advise OP without full knowledge of their situation and abilities.

 

All that said, I don't really offer hourly services.

(When I have to for revisions, etc.... it is 95 hr)

I price jobs per sq.ft. so the client has a total price going in. This also works in my favor in that as I have become more proficient in CA my speed had greatly increased.

Translation-

Less time =more money = better hourly rate. 

 

While I realize it may not work for everyone or every job it works for me.

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I would advise the OP to exercise caution here. From what has been described so far about the project and based upon the OP's questions, it seems to me that this could be a very risky venture. Providing rendering/interior design services for a condominium development corporation is not the same as working with an individual home owner. When taking on a project with a development corporation being a nice person with good intentions won't cut it, they play for keeps. You need to have the skill and resources to meet your obligations, should you fail to do so they will come at you with all guns blazing.

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Good point Graham-

I know of a long time production home builder that would never build multi family or condo plats.

Said "your just organizing all the plaintiffs for the lawsuit in one building" :P

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18 hours ago, DMIAF1 said:

I think you misunderstood my question Johnny... 

 

The architectural side of the project has already been completed. I will be taking the structural drawings and designs provided from them and converting them into my chief to input the finishes and furnishings.  I was trying to get an idea from fellow designers how much they are charging on an hourly basis for that service or how long it would take them to complete a job of that size. 

 

But thanks... 

 

 

Sorry, I took your question as designing the entire project when you said "i will be creating full plans"....I took "full" as all the drawings for construction.  I've had some experience with clients coming to us after having what they thought was a plan set for their multi-unit buildings (over 2 per IRC). The "designer" had all their notes and details based upon IRC - and the client asking us just to seal the drawing set.  Not only are their differences in ingress/egress and major/minor code differences, but firewall assemblies/fire protection systems can be budget breakers if you don't plan for that type of construction from the start.

 

Good luck on your project.

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One question do you have to draw everything over in chief to be able to do what needs to be done on your end, I have a client that did her drawings in autocad and wants me to finish them, they migt save a little since she has the layout done but I have to redraw everyting she did in Chief to accomplish her construction drawings so not a real lot of savings but every little bit helps I guess

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I have done a couple of "imports" from DWG files and I seem to always have to trace my walls over the line drawings to get a stable version of the plan.

The convert CAD to walls did bring in version of the model but it required too much reworking to make it worth while.

(In all honesty I have only tried it a few times and those with more experience with it may get better results.)

 

Do agree with Ray though- it was better than starting from scratch.

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Just now, RL-inc said:

I have done a couple of "imports" from DWG files and I seem to always have to trace my walls over the line drawings to get a stable version of the plan.

The convert CAD to walls did bring in version of the model but it required too much reworking to make it worth while.

(In all honesty I have only tried it a few times and those with more experience with it may get better results.)

 

Do agree with Ray though- it was better than starting from scratch.

 

Just worked on one recently, the DWG convert to walls generated a huge number of error flags and missed many things. Was easier to just trace over the drawings than trying to correct all of the wall conversion errors. Even so, it was still very time consuming, especially if you have to get every little detail correct. To generate a 3D model from 2D CAD you also need a lot of elevation detail, this was an issue as the elevations only provided dimensioning of significant elements. Very time consuming and frustrating. From this experience I really think you would need to be using the same software as they are so you can work directly in and with their files.

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The convert CAD to walls did bring in version of the model but it required too much reworking to make it worth while.

(In all honesty I have only tried it a few times and those with more experience with it may get better results.

 

I very rarely see someone mention success with the CTW tool

 

My attempts were always unsuccessful and tech support couldn't do any better

 

If anyone has tips/methods on how to use CTW successfully please share

 

at this point I'm convince that the tool is not worth the effort :(

 

Lew

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 I really think you would need to be using the same software as they are so you can work directly in and with their files.

 

Someday - maybe someday - Chief will allow bi-directional interdependent BIM

that will allows plans to be worked on across software platforms

 

something the "big boys" can do already :(

 

Lew

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I just experimented with the CAD convert to walls using a very simple DWG floor plan. I could get it to work reasonably well only if I deleted every thing in the 2D cad drawing that was not a wall. This was a very simple residential floor plan and given the time it took to delete all non wall related stuff I probably could have traced over the 2D DWG just as fast. Also, as there is no elevation data all floor and ceiling levels where the same as per my default settings. Seems to be a very basic function.

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2 hours ago, RL-inc said:

I have done a couple of "imports" from DWG files and I seem to always have to trace my walls over the line drawings to get a stable version of the plan.

The convert CAD to walls did bring in version of the model but it required too much reworking to make it worth while.

(In all honesty I have only tried it a few times and those with more experience with it may get better results.)

 

Do agree with Ray though- it was better than starting from scratch.

Rob I agree working from scatch is better, the only thing I can do with her plans is import them into a cad detail and maybe print them so take the sizes off of but that is it to start the plan in chief, the only time saved would be when I presented them with preliminary plans it would be more like then had invisions and less revisions

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Sorry for any confusion I caused when asking for pricing help!! I am new to Chief so my verbiage is not quite as advanced as you all but I definitely appreciate the help and advise. Now that I'm reading all of your submissions I am really concerned the AutoCAD to Chief transfer will not translate properly. Am I understanding people correctly? Go to file --> import --> import drawing (dwg)? I tried it this way several time (ie: keeping the cad block, separating out on layers, polyline, and so on).The CAD file is relatively large so it would be a HUGE time saver if I could import it successfully but all I am able to come up with is a tiny block with a "walkway" inside that block.  See the attached photo below of what is coming into the program versus what should be. 

 

I noticed some of you were saying you just ended up having to trace over the CAD drawing in Chief but how were you able to get the whole file into the Chief program to trace it? 

 

Oh, I hope I'm not in too far over my head. I was thinking it would be on the simpler side having the construction drawings already. I do agree with you all that it would be ideal to be using the same software. Unfortunately, I don't think that's an option.  

CAD to Chief.JPG

PDF.JPG

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The walls are the easy part. Adding all the details will take most of the time.

 

There is an article in the Knowledge Base on tracing over plans. I do it all the time with plans that have unreadable or no dimensions, when absolute accuracy is not needed. You would trace over a scaled image like you posted, not the AutoCad plan.

 

Looking at your plan, the units seem symmetrical about the center, so draw the left unit, copy/reflect about the common wall, and now you have 2 units done.

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3 minutes ago, solver said:

The walls are the easy part. Adding all the details will take most of the time.

 

There is an article in the Knowledge Base on tracing over plans. I do it all the time with plans that have unreadable or no dimensions, when absolute accuracy is not needed. You would trace over a scaled image like you posted, not the AutoCad plan.

 

Looking at your plan, the units seem symmetrical about the center, so draw the left unit, copy/reflect about the common wall, and now you have 2 units done.

That's a good tip - using the copy/reflect tool! Thank you! I will also go review the article in the Knowledge Base too!! 

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5 minutes ago, DMIAF1 said:

I noticed some of you were saying you just ended up having to trace over the CAD drawing in Chief but how were you able to get the whole file into the Chief program to trace it? 

Menu-CAD, CAD detail management, new detail. Import the cad file to there. I usually just drag it in from windows explorer. IF you have a CAD program (or maybe some viewerrs?) I turn off layers I don't want before importing -I leave walls (and dimensions if they aren't a mess). I do the same for good PDFs (usually made from CAD) and then convert them to dwg with another program.

I don't use CAD to walls.

As soon as it is imported I  "open object" (ctrl + e) and place all of it on one layer (I use CAD import- a layer I made for the purpose), then change the color of the lines to something like orange or bright green, while it is all selected turn it into an architectural block, then immediately "open object" (ctrl +E again) and change the layer of the block to the one you are using (CAD import). Now you can copy and paste the block into a blank plan, lock the layer,  and trace over it. NOTE that you can unblock it after pasting and prior to locking the layer. Then Chief will snap to the lines but often that is worse than not having snaps.

 

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