SNestor

Refrigerator into cabinet

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So...if I want to place a built in refrigerator into a full height cabinets...can I just place the appliance into the cabinet...or, do you have to make a hole (or space) for the refrigerator big enough for it to go into.  

 

Also...do you place the appliance manually...or, use the "appliance" section in the cabinet dialogue box?  

 

The reason I'm asking is I've tried a number of methods and I just can't get anything to work.  Wondering if it's a software glitch or I'm just confused (very possible...).

 

Thanks.  

Just place the ref appliance...

5a6be7913a06d_refrigcab1.thumb.png.4707e684543b789cb82fb4579b718f59.png 

or 

Use the Cabinet DBX?

5a6be8394e59b_refrigcab2.thumb.png.b9964856fb4a34b6bcdbac4d90894333.png

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10 minutes ago, solver said:

Via the cabinet dialog.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.194f32f9a564c717c085f3dcab438207.jpg

Yea...I’ve tried that numerous times without success.  Does the space created in the cabinet have to be the exact size of the appliance?

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is the cabinet big enough? width and depth? for the chosen fridge --the cabinet will not auto resize to it... make it 2 1/2" -3" bigger than the fridge to allow for the cabinet sides thickness and Air space

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6 minutes ago, SNestor said:

.I’ve tried that numerous times without success.

 

What's happening, or not happening?

 

6 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Does the space created in the cabinet have to be the exact size of the appliance?

 

It just needs to be big enough.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.cb4e3715214e3e9849407533073cd816.jpg

 

Open the object and get the dimensions, make opening at least that size.

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Once you have your cabinet built and in the plan, you can select the refrigerator in the library and then click the cabinet and the refrigerator will be placed in the cabinet.

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27 minutes ago, solver said:

Once you have your cabinet built and in the plan, you can select the refrigerator in the library and then click the cabinet and the refrigerator will be placed in the cabinet.

 

Thanks for your help Eric.  I’ll give it another shot in the morning and let you know.  

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I pretty much always make the opening the proper size and then place the appliance manually.   FAR more accurate and controllable that way.  

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May need to eliminate some of the face components.

I am guesing you will only want the toe kick, refer opening and maybe an upper.

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1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I pretty much always make the opening the proper size and then place the appliance manually.   FAR more accurate and controllable that way.  

Yep, what he said, and work from someones specs. (pretty sure there is not a 39" fridge on the market)

I make surrounds the way I need to order them. IF a complete surround as shown the with an opening at the back that matches the front. Then there is the depth...

 

FWIW most drawings that cross my desk from somewhere else show surrounds that are too shallow to work properly. All freestanding fridges require a minimum of a 1"gap at the back. So a counter depth fridge needs at least a 25" deep surround.  The other issue is how the counter meets the surround. I set the surround (or panel) deep enough that the counter does NOT stick out past it. That is even more important with all the French door fridges now being put in since the doors swing wider. If the counter sticks out many of them can hit the edge denting the door.

There's a bit more if you need to get it into a schedule to match an order but I doubt that here. BTW

 

For built in fridges, to get the accuracy Michael mentions, I hack the appliance symbol so that I have just the part that sticks out. Convert it to 2 new symbols- an appliance so can float it, and a cabinet door if I wan't to make it part of the cabinet. The cabinet door symbol needs to be set so it won't resize and have the origin offset .

 

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8 hours ago, RL-inc said:

May need to eliminate some of the face components.

I am guesing you will only want the toe kick, refer opening and maybe an upper.

Sorry, no toe kick.

Not sure what i was thinking there.

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8 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I pretty much always make the opening the proper size and then place the appliance manually.   FAR more accurate and controllable that way.  

 

Yep,  what he said.

 

I will give Eric's method a go.

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I always build these using individual components and float the fridge into the opening. That way I can precisely control all of the gapping the fridge manufacturer requires for ventilation and the other issues mentioned by Mark. My typical cabinet portion is comprised of a left and right partition with an upper cabinet typically place at 72" above the floor for a slide in fridge and 84" for a built-in unit. It is extremely important to get the gapping correct, if the fridge fails they will walk from the warranty if the minimum ventilation gapping has not been meet, I don't need the client pointing their finger at me.

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So...I gather from all the comments that most of you don't use the cabinet DBX to place the appliance?  

 

Attached is my sample plan...two cabinets shown.  The one on the left of the plan I sized the opening per the appliance size specs...placed it into cabinet manually...worked like a charm. 

 

For the cabinet on the right...I sized the opening the exact same as the cabinet on the left...attempted to place the appliance...and you can see in the pic below the result.  At first I kept getting the "appliance will not fit into opening statement"....so, I kept making the opening and the cabinet larger until I got the second pic...which placed the appliance in front of the cabinet. 

 

Is this just a "glitch" in CA...or what?  In the cabinet videos that Chief has produced they really don't show how to place a refrigerator...at least I didn't find one specific to that task.  They do have a video that shows how to place a dishwasher, microwave and double ovens.  The ovens are placed using the cabinet DBX...the dishwasher is just dropped into a base cabinet and it replaces the doors/drawers automatically.  

 

Chief should standardize this process...pick a method and use it for all appliances.  The varying methods just confuse and waste time...

 

refrigerator 1.plan

 

5a6cc9404594d_refrigeratorcab1.thumb.png.2556f6284999aed3cb73cb33fa25d312.png

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It may have to do with the fact those other items are "built-in" units whereas that Fridge is Free Standing , for Free Standing items I size the Cabinet Opening  from the Manufacturers Specs and then slide it in.

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The refrigerator you picked is not marked to insert into a cabinet, which is why it does not.

 

My example above is.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.2baad8fc96e084bc7d9cee0829c6bde0.jpg

 

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Eric,  would you mind posting your refrigerator in a cabinet so we can take a look?  Thanks

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Thanks Eric,  I could not do anything with it.  I could not take ref out of cabinet if I wanted to.

 

I have added my own ref in cab.  Problem is my ref always goes into top part of cabinet.

 

ref in cab 2.plan

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There you go Steve,  you now have 2 you can use.

 

Note I added a refrigerator that you should add to your library and then you can drop it in a cabinet.  Thanks for bringing this topic up.

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39 minutes ago, dshall said:

Thanks Eric,  I could not do anything with it.  I could not take ref out of cabinet if I wanted to.

With the appliance selected in the DBX hit clear.

I made some adjustments to the fridge symbol and the cabinets in Scott's plan.

The fridge symbol now is closer to matching the plan view of real life. Set it as a counter depth fridge. Then placed a couple of cabinets at various depths. I usually order these with extended sides instead of extra depth-cheaper and allows the installer to scribe to the wall.

Pictures explain why the extra depth. Note that with the current crop of French Door fridges you have to watch the hardware if you have a pantry adjacent to the fridge (usually when building this the way Graham said he does his) since the door can hit the hardware and dent (DAMHIKT).

I made the cabinets all full overlay instead of traditional since in the last 15 years I've only put in half a dozen traditional overlay kitchens- all are full overlay or inset. Also opened the  back of the cabinets which is SOP.

 

One other thing to watch out for is when working with framless cabinets and trying to use 3/4" panels on the sides. Some fridges spec at say 35-3/4 or 35 7/8 wide, and are that at the front but the insulation has been blown in so that the sides of the box bow out by as much as a 1/4" on each side. That means that a so called 36" fridge will not fit in a 36" opening if the sides are flush to the opening. Gets worse when the floor is off a lot. I've mostly seen this on Korean brands but would not count out any of the others.

 

I realize that it is often said "the kitchen guy deals with all that" (run for congress if you're that good at kicking the can down the road :blink: But hey, if it's your client you might want to worry a little about it all.

 

Fridges.png

cabinet and box fixed.plan

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All very good advice Mark and I know this starting to get a little off subject, but few other things I would add that I'm sure you know but didn't specifically address...

 

  • Look out for adjacent cabinet handles too.  Those can be even worse than the protruding countertop.
  • Don't forget about the ventilation space ABOVE the cabinet.  Many refrigerators require that space.  I like to add a little wooden grille to match the cabinets at that spot.

 

And a couple other tips:

  • Whenever possible I like to add a furred wall or create a recessed area in the wall behind the fridge to allow for a standard depth refrigerator that doesn't stick out into the room.
  • With regard to the required airspace behind the fridge:  Problem here is that it is very easy for the fridge to get pushed back too far and end up in a situation where the doors either cannot be opened, or they can open but end up damaging the doors or the cabinetry in the process.  A few years back I started addressing this by affixing a foam block to the back of the fridge about 2 ft. up off the floor...even a couple small foam blocks.  Just something that doesn't obstruct airflow but keeps the refrigerator from getting pushed too far back...

5a6cea9eca068_Fridgetips.thumb.jpg.13d65490d807e98613ba72c90c62bf00.jpg

 

 

...You know, now that I think about this, this all really isn't off subject at all.  This all just emphasizes why some of us think its much wiser to place these appliances manually.  If you're actually designing the kitchen I would go so far as to say its an absolute must if you really want to make sure and cover your basis.  If you're just throwing cabinets in as filler items...maybe not so much...that's where just dropping them into the cabinets might come into play.  The only appliance I typically add to the cabinet is the dishwasher. 

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34 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

A few years back I started addressing this by affixing a foam block to the back of the fridge about 2 ft. up off the floor...even a couple small foam blocks.  Just something that doesn't obstruct airflow but keeps the refrigerator from getting pushed too far back...

Ilike that idea, especially with how thick fridge doors have gotten and issues with French door fridges.

I don't think it's off topic at all. Can't tell you how often I'm handed construction plans where the fridge shows too shallow with an island in front. Once sized to real life the aisle clearances don't work-unhappy client. It matters even when kicking the can down the road.

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3 hours ago, solver said:

The refrigerator you picked is not marked to insert into a cabinet, which is why it does not.

 

My example above is.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.2baad8fc96e084bc7d9cee0829c6bde0.jpg

 

 

Well...that explains that.  Thanks.  

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