Advice on giving out ca file?

[dskogg]

I do some design work and some renovator customers have home designer pro and want to get chief files.

I have never signed a contract with these customers and was wondering what others do if they request the file.

 

I would like to have one price for the design and an additional fee if they want the file as well.

 

Looking for some advice.

 

[NRST8TRKR]

If you are using x-9m and they have have home designer pro the file won't do them any good. They can't open them in pro.

Have a great week end,Ken

[DRAWZILLA]

the file is yours, don't give it out if you don't want to.

[Richard_Morrison]

As Ken said, they can't open X9 files in HD Pro in any event, so you are probably off the hook. I would be VERY reluctant to share Chief files in any case, since then they can take these to someone else. (I have had clients try to do this to try to save money after I've given them a design. I generally don't provide drafting services for other designers; I am not very cost-effective as a mere drafting service and I certainly don't want the additional liability.) Unless you are already under contract to provide the files, this is part of your intellectual property capital and you shouldn't be giving it away, which you already understand.

[lbuttery]

yes, they can open the files in HD PRO

 

if the Chiefer sets the flag to allow that

 

My partner and I use to help clients that had HD products or Chief

the best way to ensure payment is to collect a retainer up front - just like lawyers do

then you can share as often as needed without worry about not getting paid

 

as for liability issues - have a very strong disclaimer in your contract that the plan/layout is

NOT valid without your final signature and that you own the copyright etc

 

Lew

[Richard_Morrison]

1 hour ago, lbuttery said:

yes, they can open the files in HD PRO

 

if the Chiefer sets the flag to allow that

 

X8 was the last version to allow this. Saving in HD Pro format was eliminated in X9.

[dskogg]

Yes there is a switch to allow pro users to allow them to modify.

 

i was more concerned that the customer now could do more with the design like budget takeoffs and such, if they want file they should pay extra for it.

one customer is telling me how great there 2020 designer can do things, but I don't think 2020 can export material lists or attach area labels to things like counters, back splashes etc.

the customer seems quite impressed with 2020's ray trace 360's.

as everyone knows we can produce 360's very fast not in ray trace views that look great.

i wonder how long it takes 2020 to produce a ray trace 360... as long as CA?

i hardly ever do ray traces anymore, instead I do 360 renders and lots of water colour views.

[Richard_Morrison]

2 hours ago, solver said:

 

Take another look Richard -- it's still there.

 

Well, I was going by the Reference Manual; see page 54. "Files that have been opened and saved in Chief Architect X9 cannot be read by any of the program versions listed above." and "Plans created in Chief Architect Versions 10 through X8 can be opened in the latest Home Designer programs for viewing and annotating, but not for general editing or drawing of architectural objects." However, I now see the "flag" for limited editing is still there, so I misinterpreted this very confusing section. (Sorry, Lew.) But I'm still sticking by my position that handing out an editable file is a bad idea from several standpoints. 

[dskogg]

I downloaded a trial of designer pro to see what it could do and it definitely opens x9 files.

 

[dskogg]

I would appreciate if anyone could share their intellectual property note they place on drawings. 

I am assuming designers do?

[raltd9245]

21 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

the file is yours, don't give it out if you don't want to.

I would only give then a pdf file with a copyrite not on all the drawings to protect yourself.

[Richard_Morrison]

Similar to "(c) 2017 David Skogg"

[raltd9245]

I only give out pdf's with a disclaimer note and a copyrite on each drawing

[Kbird1]

3 hours ago, dskogg said:

I downloaded a trial of designer pro to see what it could do and it definitely opens x9 files.

 

 

If they have an earlier version of Pro , they wont be able to open your X9 files , you can't open files from newer versions , you can open older Files ...just don't save them in X9 or they become un-editable/openable in the older version. ( so do a save as to a new name to preserve old File)

 

If they want the Materials list Offer it as an extra Service and charge for it....ONLY with a very large Disclaimer as the ML does not work like a Q.S. does , there are no allowances for Waste and some things just aren't that accurate, and it only has exactly what is in the Model in it .... so if you use workarounds and let CA do Auto framing etc then YMMV.  the ML is something I am hoping is improved on in X10 but I am not holding my breathe.

 

 

[johnny]

I think considering the "BIM" nature of where this industry is headed, its going to become more common place.  I've developed a quick agreement I have clients sign before I give them a file.  I sign these all the time from my civil guys when I ask for files, so I think its becoming part of the process.

 

I've also handed files to builders as well, who are looking to mess with interior/exterior colors and staging furniture with an interior designer.  They've all so far respected my contract so i've not had issues.  Sometimes I lock certain layers.

 

Initially I had trepidation with this idea of letting my files go, but my practical experience tells me I was worried more than I actually should have been.  I guess it largely depends on your client as well.

[dskogg]

48 minutes ago, johnny said:

I think considering the "BIM" nature of where this industry is headed, its going to become more common place.  I've developed a quick agreement I have clients sign before I give them a file.  I sign these all the time from my civil guys when I ask for files, so I think its becoming part of the process.

 

I've also handed files to builders as well, who are looking to mess with interior/exterior colors and staging furniture with an interior designer.  They've all so far respected my contract so i've not had issues.  Sometimes I lock certain layers.

 

Initially I had trepidation with this idea of letting my files go, but my practical experience tells me I was worried more than I actually should have been.  I guess it largely depends on your client as well.

Interesting, is this contract you would be willing to share?

johnny then do you charge extra for the file?

[johnny]

Yeah when I am at the office on Monday I will forward to you.  I dont charge extra for the files...

[dskogg]

I turned off both the material list and can lock any layers i choose to.

This way customer can not do a material list and can only change unlocked layers.

I tried this on home designer pro 2018 and it worked.

Anybody know if someone had a premier version if they could rename file or unlock layers?

 

Here is the file, let me know if anyone can change name and resave or if you can open file and change items.

 

 

skogg material list and layers locked except cabinets.zip

[raltd9245]

ONLY GIVE OUT PDF's WITH A COPYRITE ON EACH PAGE. PERIOD

[lbuttery]

If the client has Chief or an HD product and they pay upfront

I will share the files with them

 

also depends on who owns the "copyright"

if you do - then becareful sharing - unless you have a good contract

 

if they do, sharing doesn't matter

 

Lew

[Kbird1]

On 8/28/2017 at 4:01 PM, dskogg said:

I turned off both the material list and can lock any layers i choose to.

This way customer can not do a material list and can only change unlocked layers.

I tried this on home designer pro 2018 and it worked.

Anybody know if someone had a premier version if they could rename file or unlock layers?

 

Here is the file, let me know if anyone can change name and resave or if you can open file and change items.

 

 

skogg material list and layers locked except cabinets.zip

 

you made the zip file while the Plan was open in Chief....if you do that it won't zip since Chief has the File locked and you get a 0KB sized plan and zipfile....and you don't get any warning it failed.

 

 

M.

[ericepv]

I never give out my source files, PDF or JPG only. Some of you have mentioned that you always copyright your drawings, would you be willing to show an example of this?

[KirkClemons]

Quick clarification:
They CAN open the file no matter what as long as they have the same build.(19).

 

But, they will see this warning:

 

So, you could send them the file. They can make notes with the text tools and measure things with the tape measure, then save it and send it back. But that's all.

If you unlock it using the plan default option to allow editing, then they can make structural and design changes using their feature set.

 

Another thing to think about too is that they can also just rent Chief X9 and make changes then cancel their rental. But, it's probably not likely to happen. Probably.

[dskogg]

33 minutes ago, KirkClemons said:

Quick clarification:
They CAN open the file no matter what as long as they have the same build.(19).

 

But, they will see this warning:

 

So, you could send them the file. They can make notes with the text tools and measure things with the tape measure, then save it and send it back. But that's all.

If you unlock it using the plan default option to allow editing, then they can make structural and design changes using their feature set.

 

Another thing to think about too is that they can also just rent Chief X9 and make changes then cancel their rental. But, it's probably not likely to happen. Probably.

Hi Kirk, thanks for reply, what if I lock certain layers, can someone with another same build open these? What if I turn off material list for layers, can this be turned on?

 

David

[KirkClemons]

Pro does have the ability to lock and unlock layers. But, any other Home Designer product doesn't not.