Does Anyone Use "framing Back Clip"

[CJSpud]

Doug:

 

I hope you didn't come to the conclusion that ten or twenty people responding that they don't use the feature is a representative sample of the thousands of Chief users out there.  From my statistics training, this isn't a very good sample size to base a feature change on.  The results so far are definitely interesting given that it "appears" (so far) almost no one has used the feature.  I suppose at this point you could extrapolate from these limited responses that it is safe to make a change to some other new feature you believe we will like.  I will "anxiously" wait for your new and improved "whatever" ... assuming a change is inevitable .... while in the meantime, I will be using this existing feature.

 

I wonder how many "silent" ChiefTalk watchers will chime in to this thread and let us know if they are using the current feature??!!??

[LevisL]

Thank you for you feedback.  I recommend caution in using this feature.  I suspect that it does not entirely work as expected.  I'm not even sure that it was originally intended for the use cases that have been described in this thread.  Features that get little use get little maintenance and can become unpredictable.  Virtually all of what we have heard from users that have tried this feature in recent history has been negative.

 

 

Bill, you describe a compelling use case.  Can you describe the work arounds that you were using?  Why not just use a back clipped cross section?

 

I don't know about Bill, but for myself, as I think Joe alluded to, I want to see the architectural stuff (walls, doors, windows, etc.) beyond the back clip and just a single truss so I don't confuse whoever reads the plans with all the webbing of the trusses beyond.

[Doug_Park]

My conclusion is based more on the almost complete lack of feedback on some of the areas of this particular feature that if used regularly would more than likely generate requests for improvement. The posts here tend to confirm that this feature is only rarely, if ever, used.

 

However, if we find that people really are using this a lot we will either need to find either a better way of doing this or make this work in the context of currently planned feature enhancements.

 

After this feedback I'm thinking that the use case that Levis has outlined is quite compelling and may have been the motivation for adding this feature in the first place.

[Kbird1]

I am sure if there was better Documentation or a Tutorial on the Feature especially since ChiefArmstrong mentions no one uses the feature properly and to be "careful" it would go a long way towards the less negative Comments, nearly everyone here likes the idea, and I for one would like to know how to use it properly ,with knowledge "from the horse's mouth" rather that figuring it out for myself.....

 

 

M.

[Bill_Emery]

Bill, you describe a compelling use case.  Can you describe the work arounds that you were using?  Why not just use a back clipped cross section?

I'm like Levis, I like to show the features in the background to give the section context, so back clipped sections don't work for me.

 

There are a number of work arounds for this:

Attic walls

filled polyline solids

Putting trusses on separate layers, and just showing the one at the cut line.

Carefully placing a backclipped section and a regular section in layout to create the effect.

 

I do all of these on a fairly regular basis; but this tool eliminates the need; and it's so easy.

[JLDrafting]

First I had any information regarding the tool. Started experimenting as soon as ChiefArmstrong posted about its use. Not sure what any new development might be damaged by leaving it in place, but I can find use for it now that I know it exists. 

Thanks,

Jim

[Joe_Carrick]

I'm like Levis, I like to show the features in the background to give the section context, so back clipped sections don't work for me.

 

There are a number of work arounds for this:

Attic walls

filled polyline solids

Putting trusses on separate layers, and just showing the one at the cut line.

Carefully placing a backclipped section and a regular section in layout to create the effect.

 

I do all of these on a fairly regular basis; but this tool eliminates the need; and it's so easy.

Bill absolutely nailed it - that's the advantage of this setting and pretty much all the extra work that it eliminates.

 

I was thinking that it would be good for it to be on an individual basis (per section view) but after thinking about it some more.....

It's fine as a Default Setting.  I have it set to 24" and I love it.  That's exactly the way Framing should be shown in Section Views.

[lbuttery]

Lets improve not remove :)

 

+1

 

Lew

[Joe_Carrick]

Never knew it was there either. I hate to be the only one to ask - How do you use it? Elevations? Cross sections? Can't seem to see any effect when set to different values.

Larry,

 

For Back Clipped Cross Sections it's not very effective since the clipping distance is usually small (1-2 ft.)

But for general Sections it just clips the framing members but leaves the room elevations beyond visible.

 

If set to "0" (Default OOB) then all framing is displayed from the camera position to infinity.

I have it set to 24" so that I get at least 1 (parallel) truss or set of joists beyond the camera position.  Naturally, all the framing members intersected by the cutting plane are shown.

 

Basically this eliminates a bunch of extraneous framing from being shown and as Bill indicated it saves a ton of manual editing and masking to get a decent Cross Section view.

[Richard_Morrison]

This is a very helpful tool. Would have been nice to include it in the "What's New in X6" information.

 

EDIT: My apologies. I see that this was in X5, too. I didn't know it was there, either.

[jbaehmer]

Now that I know about this, I have played with it a little and see the potential.  With little technical knowledge on programming....is there a way to simply put a check box for each truss to "show in camera view" or something to that effect?  Similar to "suppress label" on numerous other items?  Then in camera views we can show specifically which trusses we want to show.  Maybe in a view there is a flat bottom chord of a truss and a scissor truss.  Maybe someone will want to show both of those?

 

I think that would give the ability to remove the feature as CA would like to do, but allows the users to get the end result they we are looking for out of this newly discovered feature.

[RodCole]

Another thing that I would like to see is the ability to have structural hardware items that would be hidden to be displayed as dashed lines.

 

I do this with other applications and then import the views into Chief.  Some of the things that I have learned from going through this process is that hidden lines as dashed as typically implemented in CAD programs does not really provide the view that we are really after.

 

When the feature is used you get all hidden lines as dashed, but usually you only want certain items to be shown as dashed and the rest to be simply hidden.  Too many hidden lines as dashed is just to confusing, and is not actually the way technical drawings are presented.  This can be remedied by combining views, but that agian is a big waste of time if you really only need to display certain items as dashed.

 

What I would like to see Chief do is to add some capability to have select items displayed as dashed, and this should be incoroporated into a back clipping feature such as is being discussed regarding framing items.  From what I have found, you not only want just certain items displayed as dashed.  You also generally do not want to see more of them than would be req'd.  Similar idea as discussed regarding trusses, but with items such as anchor bolts and SSTBs.

 

Some of this can be done now in Chief, but not anything truely hidden by a surface, and not by a secondary back clipping plane.  I find Chiefs camera and back clipping tools to be some of the best available, but lacking in some of the basic requirements for technical drawings "hidden lines as dashed".

[LevisL]

Now that I know about this, I have played with it a little and see the potential.  With little technical knowledge on programming....is there a way to simply put a check box for each truss to "show in camera view" or something to that effect?  Similar to "suppress label" on numerous other items?  Then in camera views we can show specifically which trusses we want to show.  Maybe in a view there is a flat bottom chord of a truss and a scissor truss.  Maybe someone will want to show both of those?

 

I think that would give the ability to remove the feature as CA would like to do, but allows the users to get the end result they we are looking for out of this newly discovered feature.

 

I think the framing back clip, whether the folks at Chief find a way to keep it for X7 or give us a viable alternative, would be better than a checkbox for each truss. With the approach you're suggesting, I think there would be issues when a user would want to show a truss in one view but not another (e.g.: trusses perpendicular vs parallel to the section line). It would work if you only had one section, but I typically have 2 or 3 (at least one widthwise and one lengthwise)... and I think Scott and those guys have way more than I do!

[Gene7oh]

anyone care to detail the step it takes to get to the option to use or not. could not find it in any of my defaults.

thanx

[Joe_Carrick]

See pic