JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 First off let me say that I'm fairly new to selling stock plans. I recently sold a stock plan and I've been working with the homeowner to make changes, etc. The (future) homeowner is now seeking bids and one of the builders wants a copy of the plan file. He refuses to give a bid without it and the homeowner is pressuring me to send him the file. The homeowner did not purchase a file (or license) and probably doesn't want to pay extra. He only purchased a set of 5 printed plans and the modification work. Everyone else always bids based on the drawings so it's just strange to me. I feel like once I give the file to the builder, he could sell my plan himself. Am I just being paranoid? Does anyone work with the builders and send files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragetoca Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 When you say plan file are you referring to the actual chief digital file or is she just requesting a digital copy of the floor plan maybe on PDF format can you explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I agree give him a "PDF" and lock it, he won't be able to print it or copy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 When you say plan file are you referring to the actual chief digital file or is she just requesting a digital copy of the floor plan maybe on PDF format can you explain I sent him PDF drawings and he said they didn't do him any good. He wants my actual Chief file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Then I wouldn't do it and move on. Do you have a written contract people sign. I always have somewhere in my contract that original files are mine, and they just buy a service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_NY61 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Perry this pdf locks don't work. I use to send proposal via pdf and they can easily be open and unlocked outside. Just google unlock my pdf. I sent my customer a proposal and when I came to see him he had it printed I asked him how he did it and he said anyone who works with computers know this. So don't trust that don't print or locked PDF to much for sensitive information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Do you know who this builder is? Does he use Chief Architect? If so, what version? If you are using a newer version than the builder he wouldn't be able to open your file anyway. What is his reason for wanting your Chief File? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Greg I know, but most people don't know that. I use adobe, you can also use a password to lock it. There are many other programs on line that have better locks that are foolproof but cost bucks. If I was in the stock plan business ,I would look into those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Then I wouldn't do it and move on. Do you have a written contract people sign. I always have somewhere in my contract that original files are mine, and they just buy a service. Do you know who this builder is? Does he use Chief Architect? If so, what version? If you are using a newer version than the builder he wouldn't be able to open your file anyway. What is his reason for wanting your Chief File? Well... to add insult to injury, the homeowner is my father in law. I did have them sign a similar contract with the usuals... only allowed to build once, can't make copies, can't sell plans, etc. I don't have that particular point in there, which is something I need to work on for the next client. My father in law did send me one of the e-mails he received from the builder after I told the builder I wasn't sending the file. (I think my father in law thought this would prove the case to send the file? But it did quite the opposite). "J*** (Me) just explained to me that you only purchased a print copy of his plan. This is why he wouldn't give out an electronic copy. Not something I have ever been told, but understandably guys that have a popular plan that they sell many licenses of are afraid that it will end up on the Internet with someone else's name on it. Depending on the price he wants it would probably be cheaper to have it redrawn by my team. Having it redrawn would come with a lot of other pro's also such as easy unlimited changes and very accurate 3-d color renditions and views inside and out of what your house would really look like before you started building. Not that it would be impossible to build from a print copy alone (you might have done your last house this way) but it would be like using a Motorola bag phone in your car today instead of an iPhone 6. You could probably get the call made, but there is a much better way. No matter who you ultimately build with, I think most would highly appreciate and utilize an electronic copy. There would not be a license issue because you purchased the right to build that plan for yourself. And legally you don't have to change it much before it would be considered a custom plan and therefore be all yours." BTW the builder and I have the same software and version and I have done multiple walkthroughs and modifications with my in-laws I guess he doesn't know about. I told my in-laws that it sounds like he just wants to get a little extra design fee or something but they still don't believe me and think I'm just being stubborn by not sending my file. This has gone on all week and now I feel like I AM being paranoid which is why I thought I would ask. Lesson learned: DON'T WORK WITH FAMILY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I do have Adobe, so I will definitely be locking plans from now on, great idea. It is true there will be some out there that know how to unlock but I think it would stop the vast majority from printing/copying, innocent as they may think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution DRAWZILLA Posted February 18, 2015 Solution Share Posted February 18, 2015 Father in law, if you don't do it , you'll hear about it the rest of your life. Do it this time, just for your piece of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Tell your Father-in-Law that the builder is just trying to get a free design to add to his own library of designs. If your Father-in-Law wants to have this builder "redraw" the plan then just say "bye" to the project. This builder doesn't want to bid competitively and is trying to get an exclusive deal. That's not in the homeowner's best interest either. Oh, Perry might be right about the "In-Law" thing. You should talk to your wife about it - but if she's not going to back you up............... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Father in law, if you don't do it , you'll hear about it the rest of your life. Do it this time, just for your piece of mind. You're probably right, I'll definitely know next time though. That one statement just rubbed me the wrong way: "There would not be a license issue because you purchased the right to build that plan for yourself. And legally you don't have to change it much before it would be considered a custom plan and therefore be all yours." Geez. What a crook. Karma buddy, karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Tell your Father-in-Law that the builder is just trying to get a free design to add to his own library of designs. If your Father-in-Law wants to have this builder "redraw" the plan then just say "bye" to the project. This builder doesn't want to bid competitively and is trying to get an exclusive deal. That's not in the homeowner's best interest either. That's exactly how I feel and what I told them. For some reason, since this is just one of my first plans, they don't believe that I know what I'm talking about. I'm so glad I accepted the project... I'll pass this along so they know it's not just me. And actually my spouse completely agrees with me haha and told me not to send it. He's an interior designer and thought it sounded pretty fishy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Give it to your Father in Law. Just give it to him. What is the worst that could happen? You make no money on the job. The up side is he is older than you, he will die sooner than you, you will inherit the house...... yeah, and you are correct, do not do business with family, give it to them for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTyler Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Give it to your Father in Law. Just give it to him. What is the worst that could happen? You make no money on the job. The up side is he is older than you, he will die sooner than you, you will inherit the house...... yeah, and you are correct, do not do business with family, give it to them for free. lol! Oh I gave them a discount but I definitely got paid, nothing in life is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Give it to your Father in Law. Just give it to him. What is the worst that could happen? You make no money on the job. The up side is he is older than you, he will die sooner than you, you will inherit the house...... yeah, and you are correct, do not do business with family, give it to them for free. You got that right, for me, Family and friends are free (except engineering), always have been. I usually get a free dinner out of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriseDesign Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Online stock plans never come with digital files, those are usually 3x the price of the plans (and not everybody offers them) - I agree with the others BUT you should have the builder sign a document that says he will not use your plans for any other purpose than your father in laws house - if he has an issue with that you know he is a crook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianneDSC Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't understand the builder's logic. If you are using the same software how can his team redrawing the plan offer benefits that you cannot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDandD Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Turn on all your layers, and export to a DXF. If he wants to sort it all out......more power to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Turn on all your layers, and export to a DXF. If he wants to sort it all out......more power to him Ooohhh, that is mean....... Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_Morrison Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ask the builder to send you his pricing breakdown in electronic format before the contract is awarded. Only fair. Of course, no telling where that might end up. (LOL.) One thing you can say to your FIL is that it is important that all bidders have identical information so it is an apples-to-apples comparison. This bidder sounds like 1) he wants an advantage over other bidders with material takeoffs, 2) he is hoping to get you out of the way once work starts, 3) sees some pre-drawn work he wouldn't mind using. I would not put up with this, nor should your FIL. You want to help your FIL, but he should be willing to help you, too. As a last resort, tell your FIL that you would be willing to share the file with the successful bidder, if necessary, after the contract is awarded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Maybe you should ask for one of his Chief Files for a similar sized house Trade like for like? I would bet he'd say "no way!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chief58 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 maybe put a large shadow markings across the file stating preliminary plans not for construction, where I live they have to have final plans to submit for approval by the third party inspection agency, also take a lot of important information out of it strip it, no floor joist sizes, beam sizes, clg jst, rafters, and I like the idea of turning on all the layers and send a dxf file Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 We ALWAYS get a release signed (notarized) that you're not responsible for any errors, misrepresentations so on and so forth and that the contractor does not have intellectual ownership of the plan/design etc., etc. WHERE are the LAWYERS when you need them? Chasing patients with bad hip replacement joints?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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