Computer hardware

[djhplanning]

Just wondering what other Mac users are using for their systems.  Looking to speed up my system.  I know Chief Architect has told me that it's best to use a pc with gaming cards in them.  I need to stay with a Mac because of other graphic things that I do (I also do photography).  I need to have the display of a Mac to show true colors.  Interested if anyone could share what they are using for Mac with Chief Architect and how they find it is performing while using Chief.  I currently have an iMac 27" 2017, with Radeon Pro 580 8GB, 64 GB 2400 MHz DDR4 memory.  Finding it quit slow even on medium size projects.  Maybe I need to just have a separate PC system for using Chief.

[Chrisb222]

2 minutes ago, djhplanning said:

Just wondering what other Mac users are using for their systems.

 

I'm using a fairly new Mac Studio with M1 Max chip, 32 GB. It is blazing fast. I've been a Mac user since 1989, and this is by far the fastest Mac I've ever owned. It boots up almost instantly, apps load very fast, and Chief runs really well... except of course for Really Fast Ray Tracing in PBR. I have no experience with which to compare it to PCs, but if you don't need RFRT, I think you'll be pleased with an M1 Max, or now even the Mac mini is available with the M2 chip.

 

I thought about a separate PC for Chief, but would only really need it for RTRT which just wasn't enough to make me go slummin 

[AvoyeDesign]

1 hour ago, djhplanning said:

Just wondering what other Mac users are using for their systems.  Looking to speed up my system.  I know Chief Architect has told me that it's best to use a pc with gaming cards in them.  I need to stay with a Mac because of other graphic things that I do (I also do photography).  I need to have the display of a Mac to show true colors.  Interested if anyone could share what they are using for Mac with Chief Architect and how they find it is performing while using Chief.  I currently have an iMac 27" 2017, with Radeon Pro 580 8GB, 64 GB 2400 MHz DDR4 memory.  Finding it quit slow even on medium size projects.  Maybe I need to just have a separate PC system for using Chief.

It would be helpful for people to know what your workload in chief is like; do you raytrace? is it mostly design and construction documents?  are you running multiple monitors?

 

This is one reason I stay away from Mac, because I want to build my systems specifically for my workload and not rely on a pre-built scheme.

I will also say that my PC system (see specs below) was built around the same time and is showing its age, even with the 7700k overclocked to 4.8GHz.  This could simply be a matter of older hardware not up to the demands of newer software.  It could also be bloat; lots of software installations that are weighing down your system resources like memory and CPU.  Have you had an Apple technician service it in the last 6 years?

 

 

[basilbabaa]

I purchased a Mac Studio M1 Ultra with 20-core CPU, 64-core GPU, & 128GB RAM last summer.

I just recently purchased a MacBook Pro M2 Max with 12‑core CPU, 38‑core GPU, and 64GB RAM.

 

When using Physically Based rendering, The MacBook GPU cores get very hot, to where when running CA on it, I have chosen to manually force the fans to come on and stay on at 2500rpm (still very quiet).  The Studio however never breaks a sweat.

 

Interesting though, the MacBook Pro outperforms the Studio in every test I can throw at it in CA.

 

I have a 55 page ARCH D layout that when printing to PDF on the MacBook Pro M2 Max takes 6.5 ,minutes but 9.125 minutes on the Studio M1 Ultra.  Moving through Physically Based rendering 3D views is a little smoother on the M2 Max.  Likewise When changing room lighting settings, the system re-renders possibly 20% faster.

 

I have to say...  I don't know if I'm more impressed with the MacBook or disappointed in the Studio .  The MacBook Pro is portable, comes with an awesome screen and while lacks the added ports and 10GB ethernet available in the Studio, I'm seriously having a hard time with this discovery.  LOL.

 

 

[para-CAD]

I only draw for permit plans.  

No 3D needed.  

Not selling the job....job is to get the permit.

 

Loaded M1Max MBP works great.  

I run clamshell to 2 monitors, an ultra wide and a 43" beast.

ARCH D almost fits at 100% on the big screen.

[Michael_Gia]

4 minutes ago, para-CAD said:

Loaded M1Max MBP works great.  

How does it handle large projects?

 

I’m thinking of getting an M2 mini with 32g of ram and a 1T ssd. 
 

My current MacBook is sluggish only when handling large multiplex buildings. 32-Plex condo units etc. 

 

I also don’t really need super renderings. 
 

Here is a typical multiplex if you don’t mind taking the time to see if your system can handle it?  Where my MacBook lags is just while working in plan. For example, selecting any item and opening its dbx takes a full 3 seconds. Funnily enough it actually handles a 3D full overview in standard render without a hitch. 
 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa9kfs0luwiknoe/>CITY PLANS 32-Plex Carignan.zip?dl=0
 

 

[Chrisb222]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:35 PM, Michael_Gia said:

How does it handle large projects?

 

I’m thinking of getting an M2 mini with 32g of ram and a 1T ssd. 
 

My current MacBook is sluggish only when handling large multiplex buildings. 32-Plex condo units etc. 

 

I also don’t really need super renderings. 
 

Here is a typical multiplex if you don’t mind taking the time to see if your system can handle it?  Where my MacBook lags is just while working in plan. For example, selecting any item and opening its dbx takes a full 3 seconds. Funnily enough it actually handles a 3D full overview in standard render without a hitch. 
 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa9kfs0luwiknoe/>CITY PLANS 32-Plex Carignan.zip?dl=0
 

 

 

Michael, my 2022 Studio M1 Max 32GB 500GB SSD handled the file just fine. Opening various DBXs in plan is nearly instantaneous, no real perceptible lag. Panning in plan is instant. Standard render opened in 5 sec and pans instantly. This is on two 24" monitors.

 

I would think an M2 Mini would do just as well or better (better than instant?? )

 

Let me know if you want a specific test performed.

[Michael_Gia]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

Michael, my 2022 Studio M1 Max 32GB 500GB SSD handled the file just fine

Hey thanks, Chris!

 

That confirmed exactly what I was hoping for.

Handling large plans is the litmus test, for me.

It's hard to decipher which systems are fast, because most YouTube videos focus on benchmarks, which don't translate to anything in the real world, for me personally.

 

Now the question is, do I buy now or wait to see if Apple will be announcing the M3 next month, which rumours suggest that it might support realtime rt?

Not that I actually have a need for rtrt, but it would be nice once in a while.

 

[Chrisb222]

25 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

Now the question is, do I buy now or wait to see if Apple will be announcing the M3 next month, which rumours suggest that it might support realtime rt?

Not that I actually have a need for rtrt, but it would be nice once in a while.

 

Hmm interesting conundrum, I would be on the fence too since I don't need RTRT much. 

 

Keep in mind I tested on an M1 Max. You said you're looking at an M2 Mini. I love the minis but the base M2 is not as powerful as the M1 Max, see this article:

 

https://www.trustedreviews.com/versus/apple-m2-vs-apple-m1-max-4240029

 

This also leads me to think the base M3 probably won't be as strong as the M1 Max. There is an M2 Max but it doesn't appear to be offered in a Mini. I think the Mini's case is too small for a Max board...? They do offer a Mini M2 Pro, but the M2 Pro is still not as fast as the M1 Max, and you have to go Pro to get the 32GB ram that comes standard on a Studio:

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio

 

By the time you go Mini M2 Pro with 32GB, you're nearing the price of the base M1 Max Studio, with 32GB and a much faster processor.

 

[Chrisb222]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

I would think an M2 Mini would do just as well or better

 

Yeah, @Michael_Gia apparently I was wrong about this, sorry. I assumed the base M2 would exceed all the M1s but I guess not.

[Michael_Gia]

3 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

my 2022 Studio M1 Max 32GB 500GB SSD handled the file just fine

I've seen a few videos that show a significant speed increase when going from 250g ssd to 1T ssd.

I'm not well versed in all things computer so I don't understand how a larger ssd can have such a dramatic effect on performance?

 

And the bummer is, apple charges such a premium for 1T ssd.

It's rather disgusting that even the base pro and studio models don't come with 1T ssd as a standard option.

[Chrisb222]

4 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

I've seen a few videos that show a significant speed increase when going from 250g ssd to 1T ssd.

I'm not well versed in all things computer so I don't understand how a larger ssd can have such a dramatic effect on performance?

 

I don't know how much faster a bigger SSD could make in my situation since like I said, your file flies.

 

But again, that's on an M1 Max, not an M2...

[johnny]

So you guys are basically saying Apple M chips don't have the GPU claimed....or Chief just doesn't support it well?  Of course Apple claims their integrated GPU is great, but so far everything seems to indicate there are problems there. 

[LevisL]

@djhplanning I'm a bit late finding this thread, but if you're still looking, I'm running a 14" MacBook Pro with the M2 Max chip (32GB memory and 1TB hard drive) and this thing is slick and fast! Almost no lag whatsoever in Chief. Like @Michael_Gia, for me RTRT would be nice every once in a while, but con docs are my bread and butter, so I didn't feel the need to switch back to PC! I do a lot of standard renders with line drawings on top and those are near instant. When I'm in my office, I use it mostly in clamshell mode hooked up to the monitor in my signature below, and with both screens open when I need extra space or to use the webcam. I like the portability of the 14" laptop when on the road too. It's nice and thin and light. 

[Kbird1]

45 minutes ago, LevisL said:

@djhplanning I'm a bit late finding this thread, but if you're still looking, I'm running a 14" MacBook Pro with the M2 Max chip (32GB memory and 1TB hard drive) and this thing is slick and fast! Almost no lag whatsoever in Chief. Like @Michael_Gia, for me RTRT would be nice every once in a while, but con docs are my bread and butter, so I didn't feel the need to switch back to PC! I do a lot of standard renders with line drawings on top and those are near instant. When I'm in my office, I use it mostly in clamshell mode hooked up to the monitor in my signature below, and with both screens open when I need extra space or to use the webcam. I like the portability of the 14" laptop when on the road too. It's nice and thin and light. 

 

 

I am not a Mac User, never have been, but I did see a week or two ago that a Company has developed an "emulator" for DirectX12 for use with Macs, mostly for gaming obviously, but DX12 is what Chief now uses, so perhaps MAC users will have PBR sooner than expected if Chief can make the "Emulator" work with Chief?

 

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752164/apple-mac-gaming-game-porting-toolkit-windows-games-macos

 

M.

 

 

[Michael_Gia]

4 hours ago, LevisL said:

I'm running a 14" MacBook Pro with the M2 Max chip

Why not the 16”?

 

I’m looking at getting the 16” model only because that’s what I have now. 
Like you, I hav it hooked up to an external monitor. 
I rarely do actual work on the laptop without the external monitor. 
The laptop alone is mainly to take on site and show stuff, or to suppliers when clients are choosing stuff. 
 

I’m just worried I’ll miss the slightly larger screen on those occasions. 
I would like the savings, though. 

[LevisL]

18 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

Why not the 16”?

 

I was leaning towards the 16" at first, but then I went to an Apple Store and compared both side by side. I preferred the size and weight of the 14" for portability, especially when I use it for things other than Chief! Most of the time I use Chief with the external monitor anyway, unless I'm bringing it on site for as-built measuring or working while out of town visiting the in-laws! 

 

If the 16" would have a numeric keypad like most PC laptops of that size have, that might've swayed me towards it instead of the 14". I chose to save $500 instead!

[basilbabaa]

I have a 16" and my wife the 14". Since it's hooked up to externals most of the time.  I wish I had the 14" now.  It's so convenient for things not related to design to have the smaller lighter form factor.  None-the-less I love the M2 Max as from my previous post it out performs my M1 Ultra from last year.  When the 3nm chips and/or vertical transistor stacks are a reality in production, well....  we'll probably be able to just design in physically based render mode... connected to that new Vision Pro...   like being on a holodeck.  LOL.

 

But until then, while I mainly use my Studio M1 Ultra, the M2 Max is very nice. when I want portability or need to crank out something that it can do faster.