Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[rgardner]

9 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

many Loyal Long Term Users

Sorry, I should probably not post this because it is probably going to get me some red downvotes from users who were affected.  Which I am very sorry if someone missed the opportunity to upgrade in time.  But perhaps the turn on and off rental ofthe latest software may be a better option for those users.  However Mick my POV for what it is worth (nothing) is that "a LOYAL long term user" would have been up to date on SSA knowing the value it added and knowing that it helps to develop the software further.

[Kbird1]

4 hours ago, rgardner said:

However Mick my POV for what it is worth (nothing) is that "a LOYAL long term user" would have been up to date on SSA knowing the value it added and knowing that it helps to develop the software further.

 

ALL the long term Loyal Users I know , e.g. the 3 man Company mentioned above, were fully paid up on SSA and know it's Value, why do you think the two employees decided to buy Chief? chief however would not allow them to buy the two additional licenses from their Boss, so they had to buy their own Versions of Chief to stay Perpetual with SSA? ( the Boss however now has two licenses with full SSA not being used, so money down the drain for him...)

 

I was not referring to the once every 3yr-4yr upgrader like SheriC , though with time and enough warning I am sure a number would them would of taken the plunge to X14, now most won't, (so that revenue is lost to Chief.) as a Subscription has "no value" except as a Biz write off, though our Perpetual copies are no longer worth anything either, unless you sell your Company , then Chief allows a Transfer to the new Owner.  ( again info from the "Boss" mentioned above)

 

M.

[lbuttery]

( the Boss however now has two licenses with full SSA not being used, so money down the drain for him...)

 

I wonder if an asset's values drops to $0 suddenly if it can be claimed as a loss for a business

 

that owner has now lost $5-6K of value with no notice from CA that licenses could no longer be sold ...

 

Lew

[Alaskan_Son]

12 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

ALL the long term Loyal Users I know , e.g. the 3 man Company mentioned above, were fully paid up on SSA and know it's Value, why do you think the two employees decided to buy Chief? chief however would not allow them to buy the two additional licenses from their Boss, so they had to buy their own Versions of Chief to stay Perpetual with SSA? ( the Boss however now has two licenses with full SSA not being used, so money down the drain for him...)

are we talking about standalone licenses or additional licenses? Because there’s a big difference between the two. Additional licenses have never been transferable, so I’m not sure if anyone should be surprised.

[Kbird1]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Additional licenses have never been transferable

 

They could be,  you just had to pay the difference in Additional to Full Pricing ie $900-1000 on top of the Transfer fee....... 

 

M.

[Archnot-Boltz]

15 hours ago, mthd97 said:

I think I would also be quite skeptical about going to Autodesk for Revit LT or Autocad LT as I see it ? But it’s up to each persons scope of work to decide what they will use and not use.

 

I am mostly retired and only do the occasional job here and there and I happy with X10 but if I still had my builder clients to work for, I would simply have kept SSA active.

 

I don’t need to be on SSA with other cad either because I don’t use my software very much at all now but if I did, I would prefer to own my license to use the software and not be forced to pay a yearly subscription fee.

 

The CAD companies that stay away from yearly subscriptions only agreements will probably do much better because they still offer perpetual licensing.

 

As much as I like Chief Architect, I 100% disagree with its new policy because it may hurt them quite a bit down the track.

 

I think Autodesk may have shot themselves in the foot ? I see some Revit users moving over to other cad so that they can actually own a perpetual CAD license.

 

I think Chief Architect inc will have its subscription clients demanding allot more from the CAD software because of this new arrangement ? It could force them to have to deliver a much higher level product than they would have if they just stayed perpetual ? With Autodesk being the other main competitor offering yearly subscriptions, it becomes the measuring point of what you can expect for a yearly subscription fee for CAD software agreements.

Softplan is Chief's closest competitor as far as I'm concerned and they are at $95 per month for a subscription or you can buy it outright for $3395.00. 

[Joe_Carrick]

1 minute ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Softplan is Chief's closest competitor as far as I'm concerned 

Not even close.

[mthd97]

3 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Not even close.

 

Funny but I don’t really know that much about Softplan. Softplan Softlist was quite developed in the past and a bit better than CA ML IMO over a decade ago. Once again another Builders/Carpenters program. I am not sure what the rendering capabilities are like inside SP at present ?

 

However Cadsoft (Envisioneer) is used quite a bit in Australia. It seems to be a bit like Autocad to me with basic 3D rendering. I don’t know what it’s like these days.

 

Chief Architect is a good all rounder !

[Archnot-Boltz]

15 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Not even close.

Not even close? When was the last time you demoed or used SP? SP & Chief are the only two residential CAD programs that are in the same category of usability and residential design and they are superior with their Soft List vs Chief's Material in list and at handling the layering of existing conditions in regards to drawing additions. 

 

Cadsoft Envisioneer is basically Autocad Lt w/ some 3d. 

So, Joe, if SP is not Chief's main competitor, who is? -Respectfully-BB

[mthd97]

12 hours ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Not even close? When was the last time you demoed or used SP? SP & Chief are the only two residential CAD programs that are in the same category of usability and residential design and they are superior with their Soft List vs Chief's Material in list and at handling the layering of existing conditions in regards to drawing additions. 

 

Cadsoft Envisioneer is basically Autocad Lt w/ some 3d. 

So, Joe, if SP is not Chief's main competitor, who is? -Respectfully-BB

You got to remember that Joe is an Architect and his perspective is different from from a Drafter/Designer or Quantity Surveyor.

 

Professional 3D Rendering of correct looking interiors and exteriors are very important to Architects and Interior Designers as you know. I’m not sure how well SP performs in that area at present ?

 

To me as a former QS SPSL was quite attractive but CA has improved its ML since then so I wouldn’t need to change to it.

[Archnot-Boltz]

11 hours ago, mthd97 said:

You got to remember that Joe is an Architect and his perspective is different from from a Drafter/Designer or Quantity Surveyor.

 

Professional 3D Rendering of correct looking interiors and exteriors are very important to Architects and Interior Designers as you know. I’m not sure how well SP performs in that area at present ?

 

To me as a former QS SPSL was quite attractive but CA has improved its ML since then so I wouldn’t need to change to it.

Rendering is good enough on both platforms (better in Chief for sure). You can send models from both platforms to Lumion etc., which many using Chief seem to do. I'm an architectural designer from a 5 year architectural program (didn't finish thesis) and have worked in commercial architecture offices and builder's offices as well as freelance design and having a small design-build company. For me accuracy of the drawing and model is more important than a picture perfect rendering. But  a picture perfect rendering is impossible without a lot of futzing, if the model isn't correct. 

 

I can't think of another two programs that are closer to each other than Chief and SP. Autocad and their ilk are entirely different animals. That's all I'm saying. My coworker has been using SP for about a year now and has benefitted from Softlist for full materials takeoffs. The only time I use Chief materials is for a quick roof sheathing or sq foot count for our roofing division.

 

My co-worker is a Chief veteran from 1997 and is convinced that we should switch to SP. I'm holding out because my investment in Chief is the same duration and I prefer the way Chief allows me to draw. There are things in both programs that are superior to the other's and I will be demoing SP in the near future. I used SP in a builder's office for about 5 mos when it was a DOS , black screen program (V8-V-9) in the late '90's and it was better than anything else until I started using and purchased Chief. While learning Chief, I found myself wishing that Chief had some of SP's features and accuracy.

I'm not bashing Joe, just not understanding how SP is not our main competitor.

 

 

 

 

[mthd97]

All cool Brad, I relate to not having to go fine tune a picture perfect rendering but some get paid well to do just that.

 

I became a qualified Architectural Technician after being a qualified Quantity Surveyor/Estimator. I like drawing better than crunching numbers.

 

It’s good to know that SP is doing a good job with material take offs and I can see why a QS would prefer that system over CA for that purpose.

 

Is SP a bit clunky with drawing compared to Chief ?

 

Can you collaborate between CA & SP ? 

 

I think CA is well developed enough to use the ML functionality and create a template to work from for take off ?

 

Can SP build framing better than CA ?

[Archnot-Boltz]

12 hours ago, mthd97 said:

All cool Brad, I relate to not having to go fine tune a picture perfect rendering but some get paid well to do just that.

 

I became a qualified Architectural Technician after being a qualified Quantity Surveyor/Estimator. I like drawing better than crunching numbers.

 

It’s good to know that SP is doing a good job with material take offs and I can see why a QS would prefer that system over CA for that purpose.

 

Is SP a bit clunky with drawing compared to Chief ? I haven't started drawing with it yet. I believe that  it's more CAD like and you have to do more mouse clicks rather than doing and grabbing directly like in Chief ( I recall that from when I was first learning Chief and had been using SP for a couple months. 

 

Can you collaborate between CA & SP ?  No, only Dwg's or pdfs. but both can import Sketchup library stuff.

 

I think CA is well developed enough to use the ML functionality and create a template to work from for take off ? I have not given it  any real effort but my co-worker has with SP and refuses to use Chief's material list from past attempts.

 

Can SP build framing better than CA ? SP had wall framing Diagrams (still does) bach in v8-9 in '96 or '97. In SP you control the heights of each wall individually and do not rely on a room's ceiling hgt. So when you change a plan or room, the ceiling and floor hgts don't change unless you manually change them (again, only going from memory and briefly watching my coworker). Chief's framing is getting really good, just a PITA if you have a lot of time into customizing and then have to rebuild  

Apparently SP is getting ready to release 2024 and have released a couple of things showing their new features both construction related thus far. I'm imagining there will be an improvement in their rendering. I'm looking forward to seeing what Chief's offering in regards to design and construction nuts and bolts vs kitchen cabinets and rendering.  My customer's are suitably impressed with the current 3d offerings that give them a true idea of how their project will look.

[Chrisb222]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:28 PM, Joe_Carrick said:

Not even close.

 

Agreed. I just skipped around a painful demo vid on their website, and wow. Not EVEN close. 

[tundra_dweller]

If it weren't for the Chieftalk community I would be much more likely to look at other software options. To me this community is an absolutely invaluable part of using and learning how to use CA to its full potential.

 

The support, help documentation, and videos that Chief provides are adequate and an important tool for figuring out the basics and then some, but the tips, tricks, and workarounds that the regular contributors on this forum provide have been crucial for learning to use CA more efficiently with much better end results (with a long ways to go) than what I was doing before I realized what a goldmine the Chieftalk community is. Many thanks and much gratitude to all the veteran contributors out there for sharing your hard earned knowledge and work with the rest of us!

 

That being said, I keep my SSA current and plan to keep doing so, but I don't love the subscription model that most software and even hardware seems to be heading these days, It seems like it usually ends up being a net negative for the end user. I understand the reasoning behind it for software, especially from a smaller company, but if things get too crazy I like to think I'm never too old to learn a new system.

[BrownTiger]

This company is running itself into the ground. With more and more choices available every day, not just SoftPlan...

It chooses to twist screws' on existing user base. Let me know how it will end....

[ I guess, convert projects HomeDesigner, doubt homedesign will ever have monthly fee unless they are suicidal... ]

 

What do you think this means:

- The Traffic on these forums are down

- Not even software pirates appears to be interested

- Seen College kids with free versions? Seen any recently?

- IFC models?

 

Let me guess, ad in FamilyHandyman and FineHomebuilding, instead of embracing opensource and integration.

Ruby addons? No?! More and more closed architecture. Out of here for now.

 

[Doug_N]

7 hours ago, BrownTiger said:

This company is running itself into the ground. With more and more choices available every day, not just SoftPlan...

It chooses to twist screws' on existing user base. Let me know how it will end....

[ I guess, convert projects HomeDesigner, doubt homedesign will ever have monthly fee unless they are suicidal... ]

 

What do you think this means:

- The Traffic on these forums are down

- Not even software pirates appears to be interested

- Seen College kids with free versions? Seen any recently?

- IFC models?

 

Let me guess, ad in FamilyHandyman and FineHomebuilding, instead of embracing opensource and integration.

Ruby addons? No?! More and more closed architecture. Out of here for now.

 

What makes you think this?  I have a college architectural student intern working in my office now that is using an educational version of CA.  Traffic on this forum is certainly not down from what I can see.  Quite the contrary.  I don't know if there are any statistics that are available for this forum but I would be amazed to see a downturn. You can make an ICF model by making your own ICF wall type.  I have an ICF project now that is going quite well.  I don't know where you are going, but if you think some other software company will treat you better, well good luck with that. 

[Doug_N]

2 minutes ago, solver said:

 

IFC, not ICF.

 

IFC is short for International Foundation Class and files using the IFC file format are Building Information Modelling (BIM) files. However, unlike other BIM file formats, IFC files are platform neutral and can be read and edited by any BIM software.

Oops.   lol

[Doug_N]

16 hours ago, solver said:

 

IFC, not ICF.

 

IFC is short for International Foundation Class and files using the IFC file format are Building Information Modelling (BIM) files. However, unlike other BIM file formats, IFC files are platform neutral and can be read and edited by any BIM software.

Eric, just wondering, why doesn't CA support export to a IFC format?  It would seem a natural from the 3d model once fully developed.  Enyone know?

[mthd97]

Yes it would definitely be good for CA to support IFC 3D not just 2D dwg.

[Archnot-Boltz]

On 1/21/2023 at 6:42 PM, Doug_N said:

What makes you think this?  I have a college architectural student intern working in my office now that is using an educational version of CA.  Traffic on this forum is certainly not down from what I can see.  Quite the contrary.  I don't know if there are any statistics that are available for this forum but I would be amazed to see a downturn. You can make an ICF model by making your own ICF wall type.  I have an ICF project now that is going quite well.  I don't know where you are going, but if you think some other software company will treat you better, well good luck with that. 

Were you talking ICF (insulated concrete forms) here or IFC as Eric "corrected". If IFC, I don't understand how you can make an IFC model and wall types. Were you both talking apples to oranges? bb

[Doug_N]

2 hours ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Were you talking ICF (insulated concrete forms) here or IFC as Eric "corrected". If IFC, I don't understand how you can make an IFC model and wall types. Were you both talking apples to oranges? bb

More like grapefruits to pomegranates 

[Designer1]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:45 AM, Archnot-Boltz said:

Unfortunately, this wouldn't be happening if all users had subscribed to SSA. Folks should have gotten onboard back when it was only $199.00 per year. SSA was/is the best way for Chief to pay for R&D & to sustain the previous status quo. Hopefully, our loyalty (mine since 1998) for all the years of continuous upgrades and SSA will be taken into consideration in future SSA price increases.-BB

SSA was never $199.  Back when it came out in X1 the "cheapest" it ever was $395. 

 

I have never heard so many colleagues and designers say such wonderful things about chief prior to this subscription change.  Now all of them, have moved on and started looking and working with other software.  In my opinion, chief got greedy and tried to force everyones hand with this new pricing model and in the end will loose more business.  The arrogance and lack of consideration for its users is unbelievable, we, the users, are the reason they stayed in business all these years.  

[Archnot-Boltz]

5 hours ago, Designer1 said:

SSA was never $199.  Back when it came out in X1 the "cheapest" it ever was $395. 

 

I have never heard so many colleagues and designers say such wonderful things about chief prior to this subscription change.  Now all of them, have moved on and started looking and working with other software.  In my opinion, chief got greedy and tried to force everyones hand with this new pricing model and in the end will loose more business.  The arrogance and lack of consideration for its users is unbelievable, we, the users, are the reason they stayed in business all these years.  

Ok, I can't recall exactly what things cost during all the transitions and thanks for the correction. Actually before SSA, you paid for each upgrade which occurred approximately every two years or so. I recall paying 199.00 to upgrade from Chief 97 to V8? The problem with SSA was that, for awhile, it was cheaper to not pay SSA and skip a version upgrade that didn't seem to do much and then upgrade at the end of  season when the next upgrade went on sale. I'm ok with the current cost of SSA vs the subscription cost and hope they keep making it available to us if it allows the program to be sustainable without getting new customers.

 

Of course, the best way for Chief to get new customers would be to fix (not make more complex) the missing or flawed pieces in the program and get more architects. We need real beams, beam pockets, auto joist hangers, definable wall plate heights(in lieu of defining wall hgts with room ceiling hgts which is limiting and makes the drawings unstable etc). Shoot, our CAD doesn't yet have a good rotate around a point tool.-bb

[Doug_N]

I know that some people's opinions are less liked by most but a downvote on an opinion that is reasonably spelled out?  Come one guys.