Contemporary Materials


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Using X6. I have a client who wants a new residence using similar materials to the one in the attached photo from the internet. This will be built on the Tennessee/Alabama line where we have considerable rainfall, with some snow and ice. What are you guys on the west coast using for exterior materials for these designs? I have looked at numerous options from HardiPanel vertical siding to high-end European panels. But I can't seem to find this "look." He doesn't want Dryvit. Also, the roofs appear to be near flat. Are you using a non-vented roof design with EPDM for your roofing material? And, how do you flash the roof edges like shown? The photo is at a distance and hard to see, but the edge flashing appears to be at least the same color as the wall panels, or whatever you are using.

 

Thanks, Mike

post-441-0-62506800-1422047525_thumb.jpg

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Stucco is generally a big no-no here on Vancouver Island. (Think Seattle Washington). When clients ask for it I advise them to avoid it. If they insist on using it, we use a rainscreen detail.

http://www.scrd.ca/files/File/Community/Building/rainscreen%20handout.pdf

 

And if the client wants it, I have a waiver I make them sign stating they understand the risk of using Stucco in a rain-forest environment and it's limited success in our wet environment. But as mentioned above, I'd go with a poured wall system. I usually use ICF for this application but have used a fully poured formed wall. Since we are  also a high earthquake zone we avoid block walls.

 

Best of luck with the client. Sometimes these discussions can be like banging you head against a concrete wall. 

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Lew, this one is somewhat of a "hybrid." His father-in-law is currently paying the bill and will have a mother-in-law suite attached to the main structure. I really like his father-in-law; very nice fellow and easy to work with, which is the only reason I'm still on this project.

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If you go with stucco you can get really good results with Acrylic and Elastomeric finish coats. It can still have that smooth concrete look without getting the hairline cracks that are typical of a standard stucco finish. I am not sure how they hold up in cold climates but they work great in my climate.

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Thanks, Alan. This "look" is just not used here (probably for obvious reasons) and I was hoping some of you guys on the west coast would chime in. I am concerned about the cold winters with an occasional ice storm we sometimes have. Snow is not so much of a problem if the roof is not flat - which this one pretty much is.

 

Does the finish you mention work OK over a framed structure, or are most of these homes concrete?

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Frank Lloyd Wright designed Fallingwater, built with a lot of painted concrete, and it was built in the 1930s in western Pennsylvania.  

 

I am guessing that in your part of Tennessee there are lots of commercial buildings done with Sto exteriors.  Contact a guy I knew way back, Steve Wachtler, in Nashville.  He is president and CEO of Sto International, and can direct you to the right people in his firm for designing your exterior envelope.

 

As for your roof, you will need to investigate all the kinds of flat roofing schemes done in your locale, and done they are, almost all on commercial buildings.  Use Google Earth and you can see plenty all around Nashville.

 

You might do best engaging a good commercial architect in your area.

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Thanks, Alan and Gene. I have already informed the client that it will have to be commercial and expensive, at least for residential, and that no one locally can probably do this. We have buildings with the panel system as well as Dryvit finishes, which I have done several. But the client doesn't want Dryvit; sure eliminates lots of good possibilites.

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Raul, what are you calling a "flat seam" metal roof? Do you mean a standing seam?

 

No problems with that roof at 1/4" to 12" slope?

 

I know we have pre-fab metal buildings and warehouse roofs all over the south at 1/2" to 12" or 1" to 12" slopes using ribbed roofing. But, as expected, they always leak at some point - not good, especially for residential.

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Using X6. I have a client who wants a new residence using similar materials to the one in the attached photo from the internet. This will be built on the Tennessee/Alabama line where we have considerable rainfall, with some snow and ice. What are you guys on the west coast using for exterior materials for these designs? I have looked at numerous options from HardiPanel vertical siding to high-end European panels. But I can't seem to find this "look." He doesn't want Dryvit. Also, the roofs appear to be near flat. Are you using a non-vented roof design with EPDM for your roofing material? And, how do you flash the roof edges like shown? The photo is at a distance and hard to see, but the edge flashing appears to be at least the same color as the wall panels, or whatever you are using.

 

Thanks, Mike

I would suggest  Hardie panels you do see joints. These panels are used in Seattle on many houses and apartments. 

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Your client's no to Sto and I presume any other EIFS such as Dryvit, Parex, and the like, probably stems from all the stuff that flew around about twenty years ago in which residential builders and their lawyers successfully put the problems of leakage, mold, and more back on Sto and the others.

 

All this, while the products continued to be used successfully on commercial buildings.

 

It all happened because of the bad installations.  The builders were clueless about installing this stuff, and their subs were worse.

 

Ask your client why and if you can drill into his head a little, it will come back to that for sure.

 

How about seamed panels?

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I have done some prelims for the client using HardiPanel and the reveal system by Tamlyn. I believe that is what is shown above.

 

And Gene, you are right. Most people I have met who don't like Dryvit go back to that east coast fiasco several years ago. And, yes, it was like you describe - bad installations from cluless contractors and untrained subs. Like so many exterior "systems," it won't work unless done right.

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There are products that help deal with water/rain/moisture in "wet" climates.  Here is a good one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgCbk76f3-E

 

I've done several stucco homes in the general Seattle area, and by itself stucco handles fine in wet weather - its typically an issue with moisture getting in behind the stucco and causing mold and breakdown.  There are ways to deal with that in your detailing and specifications.

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There are many ways to accomplish this with either traditional cement stucco or synthetic/acrylic stucco's. The first needs a secondary drainage plane and weep screed which is difficult to hide it in a design like this – the second is a surface waterproofing situation.

Call it acrylic, dryvit, sto or any other name - if you seal the building on the exterior you better be careful of your dewpoint/insulation issues

The nice thing about the synthetic stucco's is they seem to have a little bit more flexibility and resist cracking which this design definitely needs.

I've seen plenty of houses in the mountains of Colorado with synthetic stucco that have fired quite well.

Certainly the combination of a flat roof makes it more risky. I've seen people do the parapet wall without flashing (using membranes underneath) with disastrous results.

Looks to me like an ICF frame might be a good idea.

I would suggest that you enlist a qualified consultant to handle all the waterproofing details for whatever system you might choose

Good luck.

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There are many ways to accomplish this with either traditional cement stucco or synthetic/acrylic stucco's. The first needs a secondary drainage plane and weep screed which is difficult to hide it in a design like this – the second is a surface waterproofing situation.

Call it acrylic, dryvit, sto or any other name - if you seal the building on the exterior you better be careful of your dewpoint/insulation issues

The nice thing about the synthetic stucco's is they seem to have a little bit more flexibility and resist cracking which this design definitely needs.

I've seen plenty of houses in the mountains of Colorado with synthetic stucco that have fired quite well.

Certainly the combination of a flat roof makes it more risky. I've seen people do the parapet wall without flashing (using membranes underneath) with disastrous results.

Looks to me like an ICF frame might be a good idea.

I would suggest that you enlist a qualified consultant to handle all the waterproofing details for whatever system you might choose

Good luck.

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