Drawing Line's In Color

[rlackore]

I guess I don't get it because I wouldn't want my centerline on my CAD layer...I would want it on my FRAMING, CENTERLINE layer. As for the example of walls...I do that all the time. I just draw them on the correct layer as I'm working I guess.

 

You're correct. You don't get it.

[joey_martin]

I just drew a line to see what I was missing. I want for it to be a centerline, but it's not. I right click to open the contextual menu, and make the needed layer change. I think it's the same thing you are describing in auto cad...just a different technique.

[MickeyToo]

Glenn wrote: "It would also be great to have a MATCH PROPERTIES button in conjunction with the 4 property drop down boxes. Click the MATCH PROPERTIES button, click on an object in the drawing and the 4 property values (layer, color, weight and type) are entered in the 4 dropdown boxes, ready to draw a cad object with matching properties."

 

I believe there is something very much like this in Chief called the Layer Eyedropper. It works like the Format Painter in Excel. Select the tool, select the object whose properties you want to copy and they paint them onto the object you want to change (three clicks). Each additional item you want changed takes a single click. It would be very easy for Chief to add this tool to the right click, contextual menu to make for easier access.

 

I do agree with those advocating for the ability to make individual property changes to objects, (such as the color only) on-the-fly in the way other more polished programs currently do. After all, it's one click here, two clicks there and pretty soon you find yourself working for minimum wage.

[Doug_Park]

It seems like there are two ways of working being described here.

 

1) Let the layer control line style, color etc. In this way of working one would create a layer for the specific color, style, and weight. Then it is a simple matter of just changing the layer and start drawing. To control display a layer set is created to turn on/off the collection of layers that need to be displayed.

 

2) Put everything on 1 layer so that turning a layer on/off controls the collection. In this model one needs to change the color, style, and weight of each line. In this style it makes more sense to want to change things up front as is requested. It is less flexible if you ever want to change how some things look.

 

Neither method is wrong. Chief is designed to make the first method easier.

 

I may be misinterpreting how you are working, if so please let me know.

[rlackore]

Glenn wrote: "It would also be great to have a MATCH PROPERTIES button in conjunction with the 4 property drop down boxes. Click the MATCH PROPERTIES button, click on an object in the drawing and the 4 property values (layer, color, weight and type) are entered in the 4 dropdown boxes, ready to draw a cad object with matching properties."

 

I believe there is something very much like this in Chief call the Layer Eyedropper. It works like the Format Painter in Excel. Select the tool, select the object whose properties you want to copy and they paint them onto the object you want to change (three clicks). Each additional item you want changed takes a single click. It would be very easy for Chief to add this tool to the right click, contextual menu to make for easier access.

 

The difference is that the ACAD Match Properties function matches ALL the properties: layer, line style, line weight, and color. Chief's Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter only change the layer.

[rlackore]

It seems like there are two ways of working being described here.

 

1) Let the layer control line style, color etc. In this way of working one would create a layer for the specific color, style, and weight. Then it is a simple matter of just changing the layer and start drawing. To control display a layer set is created to turn on/off the collection of layers that need to be displayed.

 

2) Put everything on 1 layer so that turning a layer on/off controls the collection. In this model one needs to change the color, style, and weight of each line. In this style it makes more sense to want to change things up front as is requested. It is less flexible if you ever want to change how some things look.

 

Neither method is wrong. Chief is designed to make the first method easier.

 

I may be misinterpreting how you are working, if so please let me know.

 

Doug, you're essentially correct. But I want to emphasize that it's not an all-or-nothing proposition - the methods can be used within the same plan to great advantage. ACAD uses Method 1, but allows Method 2. Glen's most recent post basically describes how ACAD works, which provides a very flexible and powerful work environment, especially when you're detailing in CAD.

[ragetoca]

The difference is that the ACAD Match Properties function matches ALL the properties: layer, line style, line weight, and color. Chief's Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter only change the layer.

 

Not only that, in Autocad Architecure "Match Properties" will match the properties of AEC objects, Walls, doors, windows, etc

[rlackore]

Not only that, in Autocad Architecure "Match Properties" will match the properties of AEC objects, Walls, doors, windows, etc

Yes, good point.

[Dave13]

Think I'll just export the drawing to ACAD, seems to be the easiest thing to do. Thanks for all the suggestions/ideals

[dshall]

Think I'll just export the drawing to ACAD, seems to be the easiest thing to do. Thanks for all the suggestions/ideals

Yep,  that is the best thing to do,  export the drawing to ACAD.  There are no problems with ACAD.

 

I remember back in the day when I first started with CA,  I did the architectural plans in CA and then I did the structural plans by hand.    I have been drawing plans by hand since 1973,  so I was very comfortable with drawing by hand.   What a logistical nightmare that was.

 

One day I said to my said to myself .....  "you nit wit,  bite the bullet and suffer with  CA's method"  

 

It was not easy in the beginning,  but I struggled through it and now it is not so bad.  CA  ain't perfect,  don't get me wrong.....  I have used some very colorful words to describe the knuckleheads at CA,  but I do recognize that what they are doing is very difficult...  very difficult.  And they do a pretty good job of eventually improving the program.  

 

 For me it boils down to this......  is there a better program out there for what I do?  I don't think so.  I never used ACAD,  but my son became quite efficient with it,  he now uses REVIT,  just the other day he told me he would NEVER go back to ACAD.  So here is a guy who uses REVIT which is not as usable as CA for what I do,  and he would never go back to ACAD.  

 

So you guys who kvetch and moan,  go ahead and use what you are most comfortable with,  but I bet in a couple of years ACAD will be long gone and then where will you be? 

 

Here is a scenario that cracks me up.  There is a rather large remodeling company I am familiar with....  they sell the remodel to their client with CA and then have the working drawings drawn in ACAD.  Smart move guys.....  when was the last time you did a project that after the job was sold there were no more changes either precipitated by the client or by the engineer or by the energy calcs or by the direction the wind was blowing?  Can you imagine that you are halfway through the ACAD plans,  there is a change to the plans,  and now you have to update the CA plans for an accurate rendering and then you have to update the ACAD plans?  Does this make sense?  

 

For you guys who kvetch and moan,  ask yourself if the power  users are getting by with CA's stupid,  idiotic,  arcane,  short sighted ways.  I bet you would find that 90% of the power users make do.......  because the alternative method is even worse.

 

Nuts,  I wonder if the Chargers will make it to the playoffs.  They must win out against SF and KC,  if they can't do that,  they do not belong in the playoffs.  At least my Cowboys will get in after they throttled the Eagles......  how did you like that game DG?  Cowboys over Eagles,  yeah Buddy.

[MickeyToo]

Robert wrote  "The difference is that the ACAD Match Properties function matches ALL the properties: layer, line style, line weight, and color. Chief's Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter only change the layer."

 

If we are talking about CAD, then the Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter do indeed transfer not only the layer, but the associated attributes such as line style, line weight and color.

[ebdesign]

As I'm reading this, I'm wondering when I ever need to draw a line (or anything) that I don't want to have the default values assigned to that layer.  I rarely have a need to do that. I have layers set up for everything I could need. So the examples you ACAD guys are giving us just don't seem to be that big of a deal. All we do is change the current CAD layer & off we go. I guess I would need that ability some in a CAD Detail, but, even then, usually I'm dealing w/ linework that is a result of View2CAD- vast majority of the linework is already present & I just need to edit what's there.

&, we can draw a new wall off an existing wall that has the same properties as the wall drawn from, regardless of what the wall defaults are.  (who knows, maybe we'll be able to do that w/ CAD lines some time down the road.)

I think we're all in agreement that there are way too many clicks in/out of dbx's to do anything so an always open dbx w/ all the editable values available for the currently selected object would be great.

& an ACAD "Match Properties" tool would be awesome too.

[rlackore]

Robert wrote  "The difference is that the ACAD Match Properties function matches ALL the properties: layer, line style, line weight, and color. Chief's Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter only change the layer."

 

If we are talking about CAD, then the Layer Eyedropper and Layer Painter do indeed transfer not only the layer, but the associated attributes such as line style, line weight and color.

 If by "associated attributes" you mean those that are assigned to the Layer, then you are correct. I'm referring to the attributes assigned to the object that are different than those assigned/associated by the layer.

[MickeyToo]

Robert, you said "matches ALL the properties", and then listed the four or them, all of which are copied using the Eyedropper. What other properties would you want to match beside the "layer, line style, line weight, and color"?

[rlackore]

Robert, you said "matches ALL the properties", and then listed the four or them, all of which are copied using the Eyedropper. What other properties would you want to match beside the "layer, line style, line weight, and color"?

 

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. Here is a screen shot explaining:

 

 

The X6 Reference Manual confirms this behavior through omission - IOW it mentions only "moving" an object to another layer.

[ebdesign]

MickeyToo,

If the object you are painting/eyedropper to a new layer has "Default" checked everywhere (style, wgt, color,), than the line will have the default properties of the new layer. If that object does NOT have "default" checked everywhere (IOW, the object is simply on a particular layer but does not possess the layer display properties), then only the new layer gets assigned. Check it out.

 

MickeyToo is the perfect example of a typical Chief-user's mindset. Keeping stuff at default values is a big priority. When display properties need changing, it is much easier to do that by layer than finding all the individual objects.........in Chief.

I think y'all will get what you want eventually, 'cuz it will be a natural by-product of doing away w/ clickety-clickety-click.

[DRAWZILLA]

Here is a scenario that cracks me up.  There is a rather large remodeling company I am familiar with....  they sell the remodel to their client with CA and then have the working drawings drawn in ACAD.  Smart move guys.....  when was the last time you did a project that after the job was sold there were no more changes either precipitated by the client or by the engineer or by the energy calcs or by the direction the wind was blowing?  Can you imagine that you are halfway through the ACAD plans,  there is a change to the plans,  and now you have to update the CA plans for an accurate rendering and then you have to update the ACAD plans?  Does this make sense?  

 

 Don't they know that the plan is pretty much done at that point. Seems stupid to me. For me, building the model takes the most time, the rest is easy.

[joey_martin]

Robert I think thats where you are missing the point we are trying to make. You have your DEFAULTS set wrong somewhere!! When I do your 3 line test, my results are vastly different than yours. When I change a layer, all of the associated items you go back and change, change for me.

 

I drew a line

Copied that line and simply changed the layer ONLY. All the line weights, color, type...etc...change for me.

Line 3 is a copy of line on and use the layer eyedropper...poof...everything like it is suppose to be. 

 

Judging by what you are saying, I think Chief has got AutoCAD by a mile on this.....if your defaults are set up right.

[rlackore]

Robert I think thats where you are missing the point we are trying to make. You have your DEFAULTS set wrong somewhere!! When I do your 3 line test, my results are vastly different than yours. When I change a layer, all of the associated items you go back and change, change for me.

 

I drew a line

Copied that line and simply changed the layer ONLY. All the line weights, color, type...etc...change for me.

Line 3 is a copy of line on and use the layer eyedropper...poof...everything like it is suppose to be. 

 

Judging by what you are saying, I think Chief has got AutoCAD by a mile on this.....if your defaults are set up right.

 

Joey, go back and carefully read my post and the text in my screen shot. We are talking about two different things. My defaults are not set incorrectly - it doesn't matter what my defaults are. The point is that the Layer Eyedropper only applies the Layer, and of course the object then inherits that layer's properties (or as Jim Lawes noted, keeps it's non-default properties). What I am talking about is a function that transfers ALL of an objects properties, whether they are checked as defaults or not.

 

I'm going to quit now. I don't know how else to explain myself.

[MickeyToo]

Jim and Robert

 

I understand exactly what you guys are saying: once you redefine one of the attributes (color, for example) of the object you want to match to something other than the one set by the Layer, you loose the ability copy and paste the new attribute (color in this case) using the Layer Eyedropper. That goes without saying, since the tool is called LAYER Eyedropper. Please note that in my original post I said that the Layer Eyedropper worked "much like" what was being described (at least as I was reading the post) and for most Chief users it will (since we can be certain they will have that  "Chief mindset" ). AutoCAD is head and shoulders above Chief when it comes to working in CAD (as one poster recently commented, Chief's CAD "sucks!"): we all know this. Further, it is definitely not a high priority with Chief to close the gap any time soon. That being the case, I suppose we should be grateful for little things...like the Layer Eyedropper.

[glennw]

It seems like there are two ways of working being described here.

 

1) Let the layer control line style, color etc. In this way of working one would create a layer for the specific color, style, and weight. Then it is a simple matter of just changing the layer and start drawing. To control display a layer set is created to turn on/off the collection of layers that need to be displayed.

 

2) Put everything on 1 layer so that turning a layer on/off controls the collection. In this model one needs to change the color, style, and weight of each line. In this style it makes more sense to want to change things up front as is requested. It is less flexible if you ever want to change how some things look.

 

Neither method is wrong. Chief is designed to make the first method easier.

 

I may be misinterpreting how you are working, if so please let me know.

 

Doug,

 

Yes, you have it correct.

The 2 different methods to assign properties (color, weight, type and layer) are commonly referred to as either By Layer (Chiefs present default method) or By Object (the requested method). 

At the moment Chief can only be configured to preselect the By Layer method. 

 

What is being requested is the ability to preselect the By Object method.

There is no question regarding editing these properties after drawing an object - that can be done in several ways.

The request is for the ability to PRESELECT the By Object method.

 

I should note that these 2 methods mainly apply to cad objects as they only have the 4 properties.

 

The thread has really has wandered a bit from the original post. 

[dshall]

.......What is being requested is the ability to preselect the By Object method.

.........

The request is for the ability to PRESELECT the By Object method...,,....,

Glenn,  I really don't understand why this is important.  Would you mind explaining how and why this would be beneficial......  I don't get it and maybe the CA folks don't get it......  but I am always intertested in learning,  thx.

[joey_martin]

I don't get it either....well, I do...I just don't know why it's important to preselect the line type, color, and weight or if you draw the line and then assign those items. They still have to be assigned or re-assigned as it were. Unless you have a layer already set up to handle it.

[glennw]

d dot,

 

Well Doug gets it.

As I said, it mainly applies to cad.

If I am drawing a cad detail and I have many objects (lines, circles, etc) in that detail with different properties (layer, color, type and width), do I really want all those different lines on different layers? In this case, it would be too cumbersome to control them all on different layers, so I probably want them all on the same layer, but have different color, type and weight.

 

Sure, I can draw an object and then change its properties afterwards. 

 

At the moment there is no way to PRESELECT the properties before drawing an object.

All this asks for is a way to do this.

If anyone has used Generic Cad or Visual Cad they will know how well this works.

 

Admittedly the need for this ability is greatly reduced by the fact that we are doing less and less cad, but it is still a legitimate request so as to avoid post editing of drawn objects.

[dshall]

It just seems if you put CAD on appropriate layer, that layer now auto assigns the FOUR attributes.

Method two requires the user to assign the FOUR attributes separately. More clicks.

Not a big deal to me, if you guys want method two, hopefully CA will give it to you.