Apple Silicon / macOS 11 Big Sur

[dshall]

9 minutes ago, Steve-C said:

I’m using Big Sur, have not had any issues 

Thanks Steve,  from what I have read,  it is a big change.

 

Was it change that you can now not live without?

Top 2 features for you?

[Steve-C]

27 minutes ago, dshall said:

Thanks Steve,  from what I have read,  it is a big change.

 

Was it change that you can now not live without?

Top 2 features for you?

Everything just looks a lot different, email, finder, app icons etc. Function wise not a lot of difference. It's clear they are trying to unify the visual experience between IOS and Mac. Some things I like, some things will take some getting used to, nothing really blows me away. I think in the coming years they will begin to blur the lines between the 2 operating systems, especially considering the architecture of their new chipset. Should be interesting to watch.

[Michael_Gia]

I think security is the big feature but that's pretty much under the hood and out of sight.

Other than that I don't notice any noticeable improvements in performance.

Chief works as before.

I hate getting used to all the new UI changes.  I didn't have a problem with what was there before.

If anything, I'm starting to question why the hell am I on a Mac anymore in this day and age of gmail, dropbox and online apps.

I don't think there's any advantage anymore and as far as X13 it seems I'll be missing out on some new features.

Starting to get that left out feeling of the 90's when so little was available for Mac and all the good stuff was only designed for Windows.

Seriously thinking of switching again. It's actually easier this time around.

The more the MasOs changes the more it starts looking like my iPad.  I don't think I want that.

[SNestor]

1 hour ago, Michael_Gia said:

I think security is the big feature but that's pretty much under the hood and out of sight.

Other than that I don't notice any noticeable improvements in performance.

Chief works as before.

I hate getting used to all the new UI changes.  I didn't have a problem with what was there before.

If anything, I'm starting to question why the hell am I on a Mac anymore in this day and age of gmail, dropbox and online apps.

I don't think there's any advantage anymore and as far as X13 it seems I'll be missing out on some new features.

Starting to get that left out feeling of the 90's when so little was available for Mac and all the good stuff was only designed for Windows.

Seriously thinking of switching again. It's actually easier this time around.

The more the MasOs changes the more it starts looking like my iPad.  I don't think I want that.

 

You mention security in your first sentence. Apple is serious about security...to the point of crazy at times (seems to be at least). This is a really good thing...and something that keeps me using Apple products. I like knowing that all their products are "secure". 

 

On the other end of the spectrum is Google. Google cannot spell security...and they have no plans for implementing it anytime soon. They sell your profile all day everyday to the highest bidder. Every click is watched and sold. With Google...YOU are the product. Dropbox isn't google...but Dropbox isn't Apple either. Dropbox (and other like services) will let affiliates and others have access to your data. It's buried in the contractual fine print. We all have become immune to loaning our online profiles to these companies so we can get "cheap" services...like google drive and dropbox. Both are excellent...but, security is not their top priority. I use google drive all the time...so, I've gotten comfortable with google stealing and selling my profile. It's just the world we live in right?  

 

As far as the Apple UI changes...yea, I could do with less of this, but in time I bet you won't even remember what you used to do. Right now I think Apple is trying to make it so iOS apps work on an iMac just like they do on an iPad/iPhone. They are slowly but surely moving us toward a seamless operating system across all platforms. Not sure if this is good or bad...time will tell.

 

As fas as X13 goes...the only feature the Mac won't get is "real time ray tracing". You can still ray trace though...just not in real time. This isn't something I'm concerned with right now...so, it's not a big deal to me. Other than that...the Mac and PC will have all the same Chief tools and functionality.  

[ToolBox]

I just got a Mac mini M1 for Christmas but have been to chicken to try Chief on it.  I need to finish a few jobs first. 

I do think it would be short sided not to support the new M1 chips.

 

[livwell]

I am also very curious about the M1 Mac Mini. Please report your experience ToolBox!

[ConTechTom]

I've been following this thread for awhile, but we bit the bullet and bought a new 13" MacBook Air with the M1 processor. I can say, it's running Chief through Rosetta and it's very fluid. We are new to CA but are pleasantly surprised at the stability and speed of the program on the laptop. Just wanted to share our experience. Hope this helps people? I'm sure with some slight tweaking CA could make it run natively and it would probably blow everything else out of the water. 

[4siteadvisors]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:32 PM, rgardner said:

That is not what Chief told me at all!  They said they just got a copy of the new os to test and have not seen any reason why x12 will not run on Big Sur.  They just have not put it on the approved OS list yet since they have not fully tested it for any needed adjustments.

 

As Greg put above he is using it on both of his machines without problems.  There is another thread about big sur and I mentioned there that I bought a 13" mbp 2020 for my wife which will be here next week and I am going to test it out with chief.  That being said I have used a previous 13" mbp and I would not suggest even the new one for chief unless you are going with an external gpu. Maybe a mac mini might be a better cheap alternative to temporarily upgrade and use an e-gpu until the new 16" mbp with m1 come out next year?

 

Completely agree- I use Big Sur and MBP 2016 w/ CA x12 no issues. In fact, I enjoy CA more on Apple- waiting for the MBP M1 (2) release soon for next upgrade.

[ToolBox]

I finally took the leap and moved Chief Architect over to my Mac Mini M1  I am running Big Sur 11.2.  Everything runs perfectly normal with no problems so far.

 

[rgardner]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:32 PM, rgardner said:

There is another thread about big sur and I mentioned there that I bought a 13" mbp 2020 for my wife which will be here next week and I am going to test it out with chief.  That being said I have used a previous 13" mbp and I would not suggest even the new one for chief unless you are going with an external gpu.

Sorry forgot about this post but yes I tested my wifes new MB pro 13" w/ m1 chip and Big Sur and no issues with either.  I would say it is faster than my old 13" 2016 mbp I used previously and on par with my newer laptop which is the 2019 16" mbp and the gpu does decent for what it is which is a lighter weight laptop.  But not ready for production Chief work yet (especially with the 13" size).  Now for as-builts or the occasional light weight 2d work it is great.  But I will stick with my mac pro 6.1 desktop until the supposed newer mac pro Light version that is rumored to come out soon with a m2 or even m3 chip(s) and the new apple GPU.

[Chrisb222]

4 hours ago, ToolBox said:

I finally took the leap and moved Chief Architect over to my Mac Mini M1  I am running Big Sur 11.2.  Everything runs perfectly normal with no problems so far.

 

 

Looking to get a mini M1. Reviews seem to say that even programs running through Rosetta, like CA, are faster than running native on the Intel chip. Is this your experience?

[LevisL]

34 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Looking to get a mini M1. Reviews seem to say that even programs running through Rosetta, like CA, are faster than running native on the Intel chip. Is this your experience?

 

You might want to contact Chief before buying one. I heard the M1 is not playing nicely with the new rendering engine coming in X13 yet... 

[rgardner]

5 minutes ago, LevisL said:

 

You might want to contact Chief before buying one. I heard the M1 is not playing nicely with the new rendering engine coming in X13 yet... 

with the sheer amount of people who do not understand the new features coming in x13 I am wanting to know is this actual information you have on a hypothetical beta being run on this or are you confusing the fact that non rx cards will not be able to use the rtrt NEW feature that most computers are unable to take advantage of without the GPU upgrade?  

[LevisL]

5 hours ago, rgardner said:

with the sheer amount of people who do not understand the new features coming in x13 I am wanting to know is this actual information you have on a hypothetical beta being run on this or are you confusing the fact that non rx cards will not be able to use the rtrt NEW feature that most computers are unable to take advantage of without the GPU upgrade?  

I’m not confusing this with RTRT. I was considering upgrading to a Mac mini M1, but I was told to hold off for now.

[rgardner]

7 hours ago, LevisL said:

I’m not confusing this with RTRT. I was considering upgrading to a Mac mini M1, but I was told to hold off for now.

I think it is good advice but I don't think there will be any issues with the m1 mac mini for basic work other than not being able to run RTRT like most computers.  But really a mac mini or the macbook pro 13" are not great computers for chief really as they are lighter weight computers.

[Chrisb222]

1 hour ago, rgardner said:

But really a mac mini or the macbook pro 13" are not great computers for chief really as they are lighter weight computers.

 

That's not accurate. My 2014 2.6GHz core i5 8g ram Mini runs Chief just fine, and two 24-inch monitors out of the box. You might want to check some reviews on the m1, it's not really a lightweight computer at all.

[Chrisb222]

And that's with two web browsers with multiple tabs, preview, calculator, Amazon music and other apps running in the background simultaneously. The Mac mini is about the best bang for the buck going and I'm anxious to get my hands on one that blows away almost every other configuration except a $20,000 gaming system.

[rgardner]

9 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

That's not accurate. My 2014 2.6GHz core i5 8g ram Mini runs Chief just fine, and two 24-inch monitors out of the box. You might want to check some reviews on the m1, it's not really a lightweight computer at all.

I think you misread what I am stating.  I totally understand and I am not saying it is not going to run it well and be even better than most light-weight computers.  I worked professionally for over a year with a 13" macbook pro hooked to an external monitor and then two once I got an e-gpu.  But it is a lighter weight computer overall.  An amazing one for what it is. 

 

However, and this is what I was referring to with my statement; when you use chief professionally and you go to a high end computer (I use a mac pro 6.1 from 2018 that takes it to the next level), you will see the difference and why I refer to it as a lightweight computer.  My wife's 13" mbp with m1 chip is a great computer, but once you have gone to a high end unit you don't go back for work.  There are a reason guys are willing to pay 5-20k for a high end computer when they use it professionally.

[LevisL]

6 hours ago, rgardner said:

I think it is good advice but I don't think there will be any issues with the m1 mac mini for basic work other than not being able to run RTRT like most computers.

I think once they get the bugs out, that will be true. From what I've been told, they want Chief X13 to be compatible with the M1, but it's not there yet. So for those hoping to participate in the public Beta, whenever that is, they might be better off holding until those bugs are worked out.

[lookingforchange]

On 2/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, rgardner said:

However, and this is what I was referring to with my statement; when you use chief professionally and you go to a high end computer (I use a mac pro 6.1 from 2018 that takes it to the next level), you will see the difference and why I refer to it as a lightweight computer.  My wife's 13" mbp with m1 chip is a great computer, but once you have gone to a high end unit you don't go back for work.  There are a reason guys are willing to pay 5-20k for a high end computer when they use it professionally.

 

I know you love your Mac Pro Trashcan I loved mine also  (12 Core Xeon, Dual D700, 64 gigs memory). However, after years and years of neglect from Apple, it was retired to the music studio where GPU is not important and I built a Hackintosh.  The hardware came in at just under $1,500 for I7 8700k 8core, Vega 64, 64 gigs memory, x2 1TB m.2 drives later upgraded to I9 9900k and I promise that it kicks the pants off the 2013 mac Pro and even benches higher than 2019 base Mac Pro.  The new M1 is a beast from a CPU perspective, it is only slightly underpowered when it comes to the GPU (2.6 Tflops) slightly more than the D500 has. The M1 is already more powerful than most other offerings from apple. If you bought the base 2019 Mac Pro with an RX580 in it, the new Mac Mini M1 would give it a run for its money. It is a shame that Apple chose to sideline AMD and not compile and activate the drivers on the M1 side.  I know it is hard to stomach that a $1000 laptop can be as powerful as $6000 mac pro but apple really pulled out all the stops with the M1 chip. 

 

Side Note: AMD did a press release recently that said we are committed to working with Apple, and M1 is not the end of our relationship. I am hoping that Apple replaces their GPU with a Navi GPU in whatever the next iteration of the M chip. 

[rgardner]

8 hours ago, lookingforchange said:

 

I know you love your Mac Pro Trashcan I loved mine also  (12 Core Xeon, Dual D700, 64 gigs memory). However, after years and years of neglect from Apple, it was retired to the music studio where GPU is not important and I built a Hackintosh.  The hardware came in at just under $1,500 for I7 8700k 8core, Vega 64, 64 gigs memory, x2 1TB m.2 drives later upgraded to I9 9900k and I promise that it kicks the pants off the 2013 mac Pro and even benches higher than 2019 base Mac Pro.  The new M1 is a beast from a CPU perspective, it is only slightly underpowered when it comes to the GPU (2.6 Tflops) slightly more than the D500 has. The M1 is already more powerful than most other offerings from apple. If you bought the base 2019 Mac Pro with an RX580 in it, the new Mac Mini M1 would give it a run for its money. It is a shame that Apple chose to sideline AMD and not compile and activate the drivers on the M1 side.  I know it is hard to stomach that a $1000 laptop can be as powerful as $6000 mac pro but apple really pulled out all the stops with the M1 chip. 

 

Side Note: AMD did a press release recently that said we are committed to working with Apple, and M1 is not the end of our relationship. I am hoping that Apple replaces their GPU with a Navi GPU in whatever the next iteration of the M chip. 

What has me really excited about the m1 is that there is a rumor by a particular mac enthusiast that has been quite reliable in the past.  He recently put out an article about a Mid-grade Mac Pro that will most likely be a m2 or m3 chip with an AMD GPU that supposedly will be on par with the "Highest level high-end GPUs on the market" in a form factor similar to the 6,1.  at an intermediary price.  - From what I glean from that it sounds like a mac mini pro version???  Anyways, I think my current setup will last me a couple more years as I don't do that much with renderings other than vector or an occasional basic pbr for clients to visualize only.  If I need a good one I will hire @Renerabbitt.  So hopefully that rumor will come about and I can upgrade when it does.  Also allowing apple to work out any of the ARM M chip issues that I am sure will pop up.

[lookingforchange]

6 hours ago, rgardner said:

 From what I glean from that it sounds like a mac mini pro version??? 

 

Some stuff that I read suggests more like the G4 Cube in size however sticking with the form of the 2019 Mac Pro and reducing the PCI-E expandability. 

 

6 hours ago, rgardner said:

  Also allowing apple to work out any of the ARM M chip issues that I am sure will pop up.

 I think the reason that the M1 only allows for the onboard GPU is so they can work out the issues with the new chip without outside factors like an AMD GPU.

[Chrisb222]

If I had the inclination to spend 10 grand on the latest MacPro, the goofy looking cabinet would probably be a deal breaker.

 

I'm super stoked that a <$700 mini has the power it does. Anxiously awaiting the word that X13 will run natively, or at least through Rosetta.

 

Apparently Universal 2 allows developers to easily convert Intel-based apps to a format compatible with the M1, and which will run on either, much like the original universal binary developed when Apple moved from PPC to Intel.

 

I have no idea how "easy" it actually is, or how it would compare to software being written natively... if that's even a thing. But from what I read it's faster than running through Rosetta.

[lookingforchange]

13 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

I have no idea how "easy" it actually is, or how it would compare to software being written natively... if that's even a thing. But from what I read it's faster than running through Rosetta.

 

The difficulty is going depend on what software was used to write your Mac applications. If you used Xcode should be fairly simple.  Apple is actually pushing for universal binaries rather than just M1. The longer developers use universal the longer the old Intel-based systems can continue to be used thus Apple does not have to take the heat for proposed obsolescence. A universal binary is native to both intel and M1 though the developer can continue to develop native for intel or just native for M1.  However, Apple is pushing for Universal binaries. I would suggest to anyone doing any kind of cad that they need the 16gb version even if it is a Universal binary.