Exposed Roof Rafters w/ T&G "ceiling"

[kwhitt]

5 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Do you know for sure it is built with exposed (structural)  Rafters with only Ply and Shingles above? it was done that way back then with 2x6 T&G though ( not 1x6)

 

From the photos and the PDF, I was thinking perhaps you are wrong about the Roof Framing and you are actually seeing "Fake" Roof Rafters on 4'-6' Centers . and the Roof Structure is as per the PDF , ie 2x6" Rafters @16" OC with the ply and Shingles above but the photo of the Skylight may prove that thinking is wrong though? as the Roof plane looks rather thin if you allow for a 2x4 or 2x4 Curb on the Skylight. ( photos of exterior?) So it seems it wasn't built as per the plans at all if that is the case.

 

There is no mention of Insulation at all in the Plans , so hopefully you are remedy that, Brrrrrrrr...  

Mick - You're probably right about it being 2 x 6 material (T&G).  I'm going out there tomorrow to remove part of the soffit.  That should tell me what I need to know.  I took it for granted since i had the plans.

 

I have measured the roof rafters/beams and they are 4' OC and are 4 x 6's.  With these specs I am fairly certain they make up the roof structure.  Besides, the cross-section shows 7'-3" to the bottom of the 4 x 4 beveled top plate.  When I add in the top plate and height of roof beams to T&G, I get a total that equals my inside ceiling measurement of 98".  This is why it was necessary for me to raise the roof by 11.5".  Kevin

 

I'll do some more digging tomorrow onsite.  These older homes are fairly typical of our remodeling projects, but I haven't come across one built this way before.  Thanks for your input.

[kwhitt]

4 hours ago, DzinEye said:

I agree with Steve & Mick.. that's just the skylight curb.

Also agree with Mick that the T&G will be 2x6.

As for the walls not coming up to the underside of the T&G... no need to rebuild, just use a p-solid to fill in the top.  Almost certainly the walls are not framed directly to roof deck height... the rafter beams would be sitting on the plate and then they would have either in-filled to get the wall finish to continue to the roof...or mostly just put a backing nailer up there at the underside of the roof to nail the drywall too.   Very commonly on these old non-insulated roofs you'll see it just as in your model, open with no finish there at all.

Mark - thanks for the response.  Yes, you are correct that the wall framing stops where it meets the roof beams/rafters and would have been framed in between rafters for hanging paneling (in this case).  This is what is shown on the original plans.  So, I guess using a p-solid in this instance isn't really cheating...  I was hoping Chief would automate this in some way.  Kevin

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, Mark3D said:

If you use a room molding set to the height rafter gap and a negative offset to its thickness it will fill the rafter space on the exterior walls also paint it with wall material for the interior not a perfect way but bay be usefull

Mark - that's clever and will save me tons of time.  Thanks for the suggestion!  Kevin

[kwhitt]

2 hours ago, Mark3D said:

If you use a room molding set to the height rafter gap and a negative offset to its thickness it will fill the rafter space on the exterior walls also paint it with wall material for the interior not a perfect way but bay be usefull

Mark - thanks for the suggestion, but it's not going to work in this case as there are too many converging angles and Chief will only place molding parallel to the floor which would be okay for the outer walls.  I have found that I can pull up the attic walls the necessary distant and it seems to work.  I'll probably do this at the very end once I've got the rafters/roof beams all set.  Kevin

[MoeGia]

I worked for Acorn Structures for many years.  Acorn Structures and Deck House were created when the Techbuilt partners split up.  They used a 4' modular system for semi-prefabricated post-war homes.  https://thetechbuilthouse.com/

 

For rafters or floor joists at 4' O/C, we used 3x6 T&G decking.  Deck house still uses this same type of system.

[Chrisb222]

Print clearly calls for 2x6 rafters @ 16" O.C., but personally I would look in the area indicated by the attached pic to see how the ceiling and windows come together, to get a better idea of how the roof was built.

 

 

 

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, MoeGia said:

I worked for Acorn Structures for many years.  Acorn Structures and Deck House were created when the Techbuilt partners split up.  They used a 4' modular system for semi-prefabricated post-war homes.  https://thetechbuilthouse.com/

 

For rafters or floor joists at 4' O/C, we used 3x6 T&G decking.  Deck house still uses this same type of system.

MoeGia - thanks for the interesting info and link.  I will share with the client.  Very helpful to know the T&G thickness.  Kevin

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

Print clearly calls for 2x6 rafters @ 16" O.C., but personally I would look in the area indicated by the attached pic to see how the ceiling and windows come together, to get a better idea of how the roof was built.

 

 

 

Chris - you are correct that the plans call for 2 x 6's; however, I have measured them from the inside and they used 4 x 6's 4ft O/C.  Excellent suggestion regarding the structure near the full height windows.  Thanks for the input.  Kevin

[GeneDavis]

We owned a post and beam house forty years ago, a package design, Deck House, from Acton, MA.  It came to the jobsite as panelized walls, the wall segments going between the 8' on-center 4x4 posts.

 

The roof structure was 4x6 double tongue and groove western red cedar, a laminated timber product, with the bottom faces all of select wood, small tight knots, and all prefinished.  We were in a zone 6 climate, and there was 4 inches of rigid foam board insulation on top of the deck.

 

Main floor deck was the same as the roof.  Heavy t&g spanning 8 feet, no floor joists.  Ours did not have the porte cochere deck, but looked pretty much like this.  What was really cool was how the windows went right up to the bottom side of the deck, with no header over.  The top frame of the windows was milled with its top face pitched, so the inside thickness (height) was more than out, but still, the feeling was, when looking out, that cedar planking just continued through and out.

 

All the millwork was mahogany.  A beautiful house.  Large three-bay greatrooms facing the rear on main and lower walkout level with floor to ceiling glass in sliding door panels gave a view of the oak forest, with its dogwood tree understory.  When the dogwoods bloomed, being in the rooms was like viewing those huge Monet paintings in the museums.

 

'5

[DzinEye]

7 hours ago, Mark3D said:

If you use a room molding set to the height rafter gap and a negative offset

Good suggestion!

[DzinEye]

5 hours ago, kwhitt said:

I have found that I can pull up the attic walls the necessary distant and it seems to work.  I'll probably do this at the very end once I've got the rafters/roof beams all set. 

Did you check if when doing that whether the wall shows through the roof outside?  It depends on roof slope... on a steeper roof of this type the wall will come through on the outside face.

[DzinEye]

54 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

forty years ago

 

54 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

there was 4 inches of rigid foam board insulation on top of the deck

Wow... that sounds cutting-edge for 40 years ago.

 

55 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

When the dogwoods bloomed, being in the rooms was like viewing those huge Monet paintings in the museums.

What a lovely memory...   I can imagine it.  We have a few dogwoods on our mountain property... wish they were closer to the house though.  Have to hike down the hill to see them.

[GeneDavis]

A lot of pics of a Deck House at this site, which shows how one almost exactly like ours got a nice renovation.  It is in NC.  https://www.freshpalace.com/2013/01/02/deck-house-renovation-in-chapel-hill-north-carolina

 

A couple pics from the site attached here.  Ours differed from the one shown in the EXISTING photo in that it had an additional bay on the far end that was a 3/4 depth screened porch.  The view of the front shows the split-entry staircase inside, all original.  The mahogany door is original because it matches what we had way back then.

 

Do a search for Lock-Deck and you will find various dealers out in the Pacific NW that sell the tongue and groove product used to build structures like this.  The planks are king sized versions of t&g flooring, in that the product comes random length (6' minimum) and is t&g on ends.  

 

Any room you are in, upstairs or down, you look up and you are seeing the beams and the decking.

 

To build this in Chief, I would specify my floor and roof structures as having zero framing, and model the beams all with solids.  No ceilings.  Pretty simple, actually.

[MoeGia]

Deck House still uses most of those same details.  They have always built the mahogany windows and doors on site.  Deck House and Acorn were direct, but friendly, competitors for many years.  Acorn focused on solar technology during the '70's and 80's.  Both were located in Acton, MA.

 

Deck House bought out Acorn during the downturn in the 90's.  My husband who also worked at Acorn, went over to Deck House to continue building the Acorn product line (he ran the panel fabrication division at both places).  I chose not to go so I could focus on my own business. 

 

In the 2008 recession Deck House went under, and was purchased by a local builder.  Here's a link to the current company:  https://www.deckhouse.com/portfolio/  It was a great place to work, we did a lot of innovative work!