Blind(California)Valleys


GeorgeDosil
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Hi, just joined, new user. I'm trying to model two intersecting gable roofs, where one will lay over the other...it's called a blind or California valley. I did a search here and online but cant find anything on this topic. Thanks beforehand for any help.

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Not familiar with that Name "California Valley" perhaps some of the CA users can help. Without a good graphic definition for that term it is hard to offer real help.

 

Is the image below what you are wanting, please confirm. If it is, then this sort of thing is easy to accomplish either "Automatically" or manually.

 

DJP

download.gif

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3 hours ago, DavidJPotter said:

Not familiar with that Name "California Valley"

 

5 hours ago, GeorgeDosil said:

.it's called a blind or California valley

Yep, I believe you got it David... generally referred to as California Framing.
If you want it modeled that way then pretty sure you have to do some things manually.  If it's a simple roof as stated (two intersecting gable roofs) I'd just auto-build then modify the underlying roof plane.
 

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1 minute ago, DzinEye said:

 If it's a simple roof as stated (two intersecting gable roofs) I'd just auto-build then modify the underlying roof plane.

Nothing wrong with this of course, but it will produce incorrect roof data...if that matters to the OP. Generally, you'd still want your valleys to connect as Chief would typically and then you'd modify the framing. Keep in mind that Chief can't produce a horizontal seat cut on a rafter. A BIG difference between modelling the 'roof' or the 'roof framing'! The former is fast, while the latter is laborious!

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2 minutes ago, robdyck said:

Nothing wrong with this of course, but it will produce incorrect roof data...if that matters to the OP. Generally, you'd still want your valleys to connect as Chief would typically and then you'd modify the framing. Keep in mind that Chief can't produce a horizontal seat cut on a rafter. A BIG difference between modelling the 'roof' or the 'roof framing'! The former is fast, while the latter is laborious!

By 'data' I assume you're talking about materials list(s)?  Right, of course that getting the framing to actually model correctly is a whole-nuther thing.... although not sure I'm following you on "you'd still want your valley's to connect" ?... There wouldn't be valley framing in the lower roof plane if it's California Framed.  

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18 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

There wouldn't be valley framing in the lower roof plane if it's California Framed

That's right. To clarify I was referring to the valley portion of the roof plane. In Chief, you'd still want those connected. Even if you were to carry the lower roof plane through, you'd still need to model the framing manually. They're all wrong!

A roof runs through it:image.thumb.png.74aab54358dcc5095a44fded12a24545.png

roofs connected at valleys:image.thumb.png.73df370b22a7e8837a4795e16ed213cd.png 

a separate roof plane underneath with the surfaces removed:image.thumb.png.c6a25704e8f1cfa98f8d964def5b8c01.png

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I’ve typically modeled those overframes in one of 2 ways...

 

-Manually using solids

-Using trusses that are essentially just rafters (edited as necessary in truss detail).

 

In both cases though I’ve typically used a Truss Base for underneath the over-frame area.  

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21 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Truss Base

+1
 

 

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

you'd still need to model the framing manually.

True, and if I need a blind plate then I make a roof plane produce it for me and take up most of the heavy lifting so I can manually manipulate it:
image.thumb.png.830ee13e404295caf99fe33d5b308dc1.png

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On 5/29/2020 at 7:57 AM, DavidJPotter said:

Not familiar with that Name "California Valley" perhaps some of the CA users can help. Without a good graphic definition for that term it is hard to offer real help.

 

Is the image below what you are wanting, please confirm. If it is, then this sort of thing is easy to accomplish either "Automatically" or manually.

 

DJP

download.gif

David, I should have been more descriptive with my question. The California or Blind Valley is what you have pictured in your post. Instead of a valley rafter this method uses a valley plate to which all the jacks are attached to. Here is a photo and a Youtube link which shows it in Sketchup. 

 

 

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:54 AM, robdyck said:

That's right. To clarify I was referring to the valley portion of the roof plane. In Chief, you'd still want those connected. Even if you were to carry the lower roof plane through, you'd still need to model the framing manually. They're all wrong!

A roof runs through it:image.thumb.png.74aab54358dcc5095a44fded12a24545.png

roofs connected at valleys:image.thumb.png.73df370b22a7e8837a4795e16ed213cd.png 

a separate roof plane underneath with the surfaces removed:image.thumb.png.c6a25704e8f1cfa98f8d964def5b8c01.png

That's exactly the problem. How would you draw the valley plate? The jack rafters have a horizontal as well as a bevel cut to match the plane of the main roof. Can Chief do this?
 

images (1).jpg

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18 hours ago, DzinEye said:

By 'data' I assume you're talking about materials list(s)?  Right, of course that getting the framing to actually model correctly is a whole-nuther thing.... although not sure I'm following you on "you'd still want your valley's to connect" ?... There wouldn't be valley framing in the lower roof plane if it's California Framed.  

If I had to make a choice, I'd prefer to have the model framed correctly vs having an accurate material take-off. 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I’ve typically modeled those overframes in one of 2 ways...

 

-Manually using solids

-Using trusses that are essentially just rafters (edited as necessary in truss detail).

 

In both cases though I’ve typically used a Truss Base for underneath the over-frame area.  

Do you have any photo's you can show of the finished model? I like the truss idea, I may try that.

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