Layout & Layer Sets

[AndreaKDC]

Thank you everyone!  It never ceases to amaze me what this program is capable of doing.  I'd say I'm a little overwhelmed if anything, but nonetheless excited to implement some of this new knowledge.  The videos have been enlightening!  

 

tommy1, you may very well be hearing from me after I've had a go at these pointers.  

 

Thanks again!

Andrea

[Ridge_Runner]

Glad you're still with us! 

[Evolution]

6 minutes ago, Ridge_Runner said:

Absolutely true. I worked with the annosets driving the layersets and defaults for years; loved the way they worked together. I put off updating to X10 for several months; I was covered up in work and didn't want to take the time to learn the new features. But the idea of the planviews intrigued me, as well as the new PBR. When I finally upgraded to X10 (SSA was paid up) I immediately implemented the planviews; haven't been disappointed (yet). One click and I can switch not only layersets but the floor at the same time without having to manually change it; great time saver.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and I just watched the two videos (short and sweet) so I could've missed it, but it appears before you save a plan set, you still have to set up a layer set, (and if I'm missing this don't get mad at me) you then set up what you want displayed on your layer set, and then set up an annoset ? This all has to be done before you save a plan set? I'm dumb here so humor me, (I don't think I saw that explained), if you open a plan from a template you've created (previously) and built your LS's and AS's for that template, then you'd only have to open a plan view to that LS, then do a save plan view (which would automatically include your AS)?

I looked for something in the KB but didn't see it exactly, and searched for more videos but just found the two I've looked at. Anyone know of any additional related to Plan sets?

[Ridge_Runner]

1 minute ago, Evolution said:

if you open a plan from a template you've created (previously) and built your LS's and AS's for that template, then you'd only have to open a plan view to that LS, then do a save plan view (which would automatically include your AS)?

I will defer to some of the others more proficient than me, but yes, that is basically what I do right now as that seemed to be the quickest way. Hardest thing I have found is breaking myself from changing the annoset or layerset or the floor once I have saved a planview (old habits die hard). Save it, use it, and don't change anything on it unless you want to modify it for some reason. It is easy to do a save-as to a new planview if you need a new one with some different output.

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

Hey Michael,

 

Curious about your comment above and love the idea if it truly simplifies things but I was just exploring Plan Views and it looks like there's a drop down >Annotation Set>Currently Using: and can't seem to find a way to use an Anno Set in that drop down that does not choose the Layer Set as set up in that currently selected Anno set?

 

Without using Anno Sets, which is what I am reading you are suggesting, how are they by-passed within this drop down?

 

Thanks and hope you're well...

 

 

 

I’m not sure I totally understand your question, but I think you’re maybe just overthinking things.  As soon as you SAVE a Plan View, it will remember the layer set, the Reference Display settings, whether color is toggled on and off, and all the Active Defaults amongst other things (including the option to remember floor and/or zoom setting).  If you save the plan view using a specific annotation set then it will remember the annotation set, otherwise it will just remember your ala carte active defaults.  

 

To old and new users alike, I would just suggest that you make sure you fully understand what your Active Defaults are.  Annotation sets are not a complicated critter.  All they are is a set group of Active Defaults.  If you are simply using annotation sets to change your Active Defaults in one fell swoop the Plan Views will do all of that.  The big kicker here is that they can also do a lot more than that though.  Open a Saved Plan View from the project browser and you can pretty quickly see all the things they can be set to remember.  

 

Now to anyone trying to teach or help new users, I would really encourage you to make sure you fully understand Plan Views before teaching or encouraging them to use Annotation Sets “the old way”.  Yes, tell them what annotation sets do (change your Active Defaults as group), but I really think you’ll be setting them up with an inferior workflow if you ignore Plan Views.  

[Evolution]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I’m not sure I totally understand your question, but I think you’re maybe just overthinking things.  As soon as you SAVE a Plan View, it will remember the layer set, the Reference Display settings, whether color is toggled on and off, and all the Active Defaults amongst other things (including the option to remember floor and/or zoom setting).  If you save the plan view using a specific annotation set then it will remember the annotation set, otherwise it will

just remember your ala carts active defaults.  

 

To old and new users alike, I would just suggest that you make sure you fully understand what your Active Defaults are.  Annotation sets are not a complicated critter.  All they are is a set group of Active Defaults.  If you are simply using annotation sets to change your Active Defaults in one fell swoop the Plan Views will do all of that.  The big kicker here is that they can also do a lot more than that though.  Open a Saved Plan View from the project browser and you can pretty quickly see all the things they can be set to remember.  

 

Now to anyone trying to teach or help new users, I would really encourage you to make sure you fully understand Plan Views before teaching or encouraging them to use Annotation Sets “the old way”.  Yes, tell them what annotation sets do (change your Active Defaults as group), but I really think you’ll be setting them up with an inferior workflow if you ignore Plan Views.  

Michael, I actually like the idea of using plan Views, but; if I am going to start using them at some point (I think I remember Glenn W., maybe someone else) back when I was making a messing up trying to set up LA and AS, suggested then I start using Plan views? But, anyway, obviously PV's don't set the LS and AS up automatically correct? That's MY question, we still have to set up Layer Sets (say for instance in my local an HVAC set, requires HVAC items displayed but not necessarily Cabinets for example, and an Anno set with all the attributes would need to be set up as well for any of the details associated with that layer? Then Once you've done that you save a plan view say HVAC Plan View. And when you switch back and forth say from you framing plan view to your HVAC plan view the layer and Anno are there? Right? 

[tommy1]

32 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Now to anyone trying to teach or help new users, I would really encourage you to make sure you fully understand Plan Views before teaching or encouraging them to use Annotation Sets “the old way”.  Yes, tell them what annotation sets do (change your Active Defaults as group), but I really think you’ll be setting them up with an inferior workflow if you ignore Plan Views.  

All I can say is in this case, If Andrea would like my help (using layer sets with Anno sets), then she can decide to call me or not. She certainly doesn't have to and as I said earlier, she could call many people including you. Andrea, if you want to use "Plan Views" for your layout then please contact someone else for I really haven't used them and have been way too busy to check into it. I certainly hope you get this worked out.

[builtright3]

I would like to be a part of a group on line session if anyone wants to put it together. I would love to learn more about plan views. I like the group sessions because good questions come out of it.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I’m not sure I totally understand your question, but I think you’re maybe just overthinking things.  As soon as you SAVE a Plan View, it will remember the layer set, the Reference Display settings, whether color is toggled on and off, and all the Active Defaults amongst other things (including the option to remember floor and/or zoom setting).  If you save the plan view using a specific annotation set then it will remember the annotation set, otherwise it will just remember your ala carte active defaults.  

 

To old and new users alike, I would just suggest that you make sure you fully understand what your Active Defaults are.  Annotation sets are not a complicated critter.  All they are is a set group of Active Defaults.  If you are simply using annotation sets to change your Active Defaults in one fell swoop the Plan Views will do all of that.  The big kicker here is that they can also do a lot more than that though.  Open a Saved Plan View from the project browser and you can pretty quickly see all the things they can be set to remember.  

 

Now to anyone trying to teach or help new users, I would really encourage you to make sure you fully understand Plan Views before teaching or encouraging them to use Annotation Sets “the old way”.  Yes, tell them what annotation sets do (change your Active Defaults as group), but I really think you’ll be setting them up with an inferior workflow if you ignore Plan Views.  

 Yeah my questions are kinda like that...just can't see how to save a plan view without a specific Anno Set?

 

That Anno Set drop down in the Plan View dbx seems like it's requiring a specific Anno Set? No? That's the part I'm not getting. How do I save a Plan View without a specific Anno Set?

 

Thanks

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Evolution said:

Michael, I actually like the idea of using plan Views, but; if I am going to start using them at some point (I think I remember Glenn W., maybe someone else) back when I was making a messing up trying to set up LA and AS, suggested then I start using Plan views? But, anyway, obviously PV's don't set the LS and AS up automatically correct? That's MY question, we still have to set up Layer Sets (say for instance in my local an HVAC set, requires HVAC items displayed but not necessarily Cabinets for example, and an Anno set with all the attributes would need to be set up as well for any of the details associated with that layer? Then Once you've done that you save a plan view say HVAC Plan View. And when you switch back and forth say from you framing plan view to your HVAC plan view the layer and Anno are there? Right? 

I think that's pretty much it but there might be a trick or nuance missing. I'm all ears/eyes....

[Renerabbitt]

Made a complicated video for everyone to scratch your head at..really I tried my best on short notice

Please allow 10 minutes for it to display in HD, otherwise the resolution will be atrocious! (YouTube needs 10 min processing time for HD)

 

 

[HumbleChief]

Thanks Rene, Really nice to see how other brains use Chief's tools. I'm pretty old school with Chief's layout tools but again really appreciate your look at things....

[Renerabbitt]

1 minute ago, HumbleChief said:

Thanks Rene, Really nice to see how other brains use Chief's tools. I'm pretty old school with Chief's layout tools but again really appreciate your look at things....

You're very welcome- my brain doesnt like puzzle pieces-HA! which is how I've always thought of the layout process. Another user has requested multiple times that a layout should just be a powerful PDF editor, nothing more...I've always been fond of that idea

[AndreaKDC]

Thanks, Rene.  Definitely an interesting way to go about things, and worth looking into!

 

Andrea

[builtright3]

24 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Made a complicated video for everyone to scratch your head at..really I tried my best on short notice

Please allow 10 minutes for it to display in HD, otherwise the resolution will be atrocious! (YouTube needs 10 min processing time for HD)

 

 

Very interesting concept! Great Video!

 

I have a question:

If I wanted to have the electrical plan and plumbing plan or foundation and framing (any of these) on the same layout page how would I do that if you are using this idea?

 

[Kbird1]

58 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Made a complicated video for everyone to scratch your head at..really I tried my best on short notice

Please allow 10 minutes for it to display in HD, otherwise the resolution will be atrocious! (YouTube needs 10 min processing time for HD)

 

 

 

Thanks Rene , interesting ideas and concepts you are coming up with there....

 

M.

[Renerabbitt]

39 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

Very interesting concept! Great Video!

 

I have a question:

If I wanted to have the electrical plan and plumbing plan or foundation and framing (any of these) on the same layout page how would I do that if you are using this idea?

 

 

[Kbird1]

3 hours ago, Evolution said:

This all has to be done before you save a plan set? I'm dumb here so humor me, (I don't think I saw that explained), if you open a plan from a template you've created (previously) and built your LS's and AS's for that template, then you'd only have to open a plan view to that LS, then do a save plan view (which would automatically include your AS)?  I looked for something in the KB but didn't see it exactly, and searched for more videos but just found the two I've looked at. Anyone know of any additional related to Plan sets?

 

I think if you are now using linked Annosets like me , you just need to make sure you are in the Annoset you want/need and then Save the Current View with a New Name , set the Floor and Zoom etc so you can switch back to it easily and quickly......AND thus automatically change to Anno and Layerset PLUS the Floor and Zoom factor etc, in the saved View Planset , it's almost like the Plan Set is King now , not the Annoset , which is why in the videos they no longer have the Annoset drop-down on the Toolbar , as the PS , is now controlling it all.

[builtright3]

7 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

 

 

Thank You for clearing that up! 

[Dermot]

I have posted this information before but it sounds like Andrea is having the same problem that the other poster was having.

 

I did not look at your plan but from your description it sounds like you are sending views to layout that are linked to Saved Plan Views.  If you change anything with the saved plan view, then this will affect your layout view.

 

Here are some ways to solve your problems:

 

    - You can stop using saved plan views by switching your Saved Plan View Control that appears in the default toolbar to "None".  You can also do this in your default template so that new plans won't start in a saved plan view.

 

    - You can unlink a layout box from a saved plan view by opening the Layout Box Specification dialog and setting the Linked Saved Plan View combo box to "None".

 

    - You can learn how to use Saved Plan Views.  If you use a different saved plan view for each layout view, you won't have to worry about accidently messing them up.

 

More information about Saved Plan Views can be found in the reference manual or in this video:

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2421/saved-plan-views.html?playlist=100

 

[Alaskan_Son]

To answer a few of you guys at the same time re: anno sets...

 

Try to completely forget about the term Annotation Set for a minute.  I feel like you’re getting too hung up on that term.  Now ask yourself this question...Do I know EXACTLY what Active Defaults are (this is not some generic term I’m making up) and and do I know where that dialog box is?  We have always been able to change our Active Defaults without using an Annotation Set.  Nothing has changed.  Simply set your Active Defaults to what you want and then Save the Plan View.  No need to assign an anno set if you don’t want/need to (which most people don’t).  I’ve said this many many times before, but an annotation set is just a pre-set group of Active Defaults.  Change them all as a group using an annoset or change them one at a time, it’s really up to the user.  

 

As I also said earlier in this thread, right click on a Saved Plan View in the project browser.  Look at everything Plan Views remember.  All the Active Default items are in there.  Set them to whatever you want them to be...either right there or in the Active Defaults dialog, it doesn’t even matter which.  When you do so though, you are choosing not to use an annotation set.  Just because you see an annotation set dropdown doesn’t mean you need to use it.  

 

For the less experienced users.  Here are all the basics in a nutshell.  

-  Items are displayed using their LAYER and it’s related settings.  

-  LAYER SETS are a way to control the display of those layers differently as a group (roof plan vs. electrical plan for example).  

-  ACTIVE DEFAULTS allow you to select which text, dimension, and other annotation object defaults you want to use at any given time (these defaults may control the text style, dimension format, layer the annotation object is initially placed on etc.) as well as which layer your CAD objects are place on (referred to as the CURRENT CAD LAYER

-  ANNOTATION SETS are what you get when you choose to save a group of the afformentioned Active Defaults. Change the annotation set and the Active Defaults all change at the same time.  The annotation set can also optionally change the Layer Set along with the other Active Defaults.

-  Plan Views are much like Annotation Sets and can be set to remember EVERYTHING annotation sets remember but they can ALSO remember zoom settings, floor numbers, color on/off toggle settings, whether or not a reference floor is being used, which reference floor is being used, which reference layer set is being used, and there may be more things I’m forgetting.  In addition, Plan Views are also stored in the Project Browser which can make for a much more efficient way to manage your plans with or without a layout being open.  

[builtright3]

31 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

To answer a few of you guys at the same time re: anno sets...

 

Try to completely forget about the term Annotation Set for a minute.  I feel like you’re getting too hung up on that term.  Now ask yourself this question...Do I know EXACTLY what Active Defaults are (this is not some generic term I’m making up) and and do I know where that dialog box is?  We have always been able to change our Active Defaults without using an Annotation Set.  Nothing has changed.  Simply set your Active Defaults to what you want and then Save the Plan View.  No need to assign an anno set if you don’t want/need to (which most people don’t).  I’ve said this many many times before, but an annotation set is just a pre-set group of Active Defaults.  Change them all as a group using an annoset or change them one at a time, it’s really up to the user.  

 

As I also said earlier in this thread, right click on a Saved Plan View in the project browser.  Look at everything Plan Views remember.  All the Active Default items are in there.  Set them to whatever you want them to be...either right there or in the Active Defaults dialog, it doesn’t even matter which.  When you do so though, you are choosing not to use an annotation set.  Just because you see an annotation set dropdown doesn’t mean you need to use it.  

 

For the less experienced users.  Here are all the basics in a nutshell.  

-  Items are displayed using their LAYER and it’s related settings.  

-  LAYER SETS are a way to control the display of those layers differently as a group (roof plan vs. electrical plan for example).  

-  ACTIVE DEFAULTS allow you to select which text, dimension, and other annotation object defaults you want to use at any given time (these defaults may control the text style, dimension format, layer the annotation object is initially placed on etc.) as well as which layer your CAD objects are place on (referred to as the CURRENT CAD LAYER

-  ANNOTATION SETS are what you get when you choose to save a group of the afformentioned Active Defaults. Change the annotation set and the Active Defaults all change at the same time.  The annotation set can also optionally change the Layer Set along with the other Active Defaults.

-  Plan Views are much like Annotation Sets and can be set to remember EVERYTHING annotation sets remember but they can ALSO remember zoom settings, floor numbers, color on/off toggle settings, whether or not a reference floor is being used, which reference floor is being used, which reference layer set is being used, and there may be more things I’m forgetting.  In addition, Plan Views are also stored in the Project Browser which can make for a much more efficient way to manage your plans with or without a layout being open.  

 

I totally get it! Thank you!

I have one question:

Can you give an example of when we might still want to use an Annotation Set? Or are you saying that there is no longer a need for them at all? That maybe they still exist because of us old school guy's that are still using them? 

[Alaskan_Son]

9 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

I hearted that one, but I will say that I like annotation sets for the fact that I can use them to quickly draw CAD or text notes on a specified layer from the anno set while remaining in the same layer set- such as red line comments or a specific detail that I want in just 2 of my plan views per se. Yes you could accomplish that with plan views but that would really pump up the number of plan views and I feel its cleaner this way.

 

Ya.  You could continue to use Active Defaults and optionally Annotation Sets for this purpose  just as always.  This is one good reason for keeping Annotation Sets around for sure.  For the record, I wasn’t actually suggesting they get rid of annotation sets entirely because that can still serve as a good organizational/annotation object group control tool.  I was only trying to point out how they’re not really necessary anymore for what most of us use them for and how they’re a redundant control for most people’s workflows.  

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Ya.  You could continue to use Active Defaults and optionally Annotation Sets for this purpose  just as always.  This is one good reason for keeping Annotation Sets around for sure.  For the record, I wasn’t actually suggesting they get rid of annotation sets entirely because that can still serve as a good organizational/annotation object group control tool.  I was only trying to point out how they’re not really necessary anymore for what most of us use them for and how they’re a redundant control for most people’s workflows.  

I should've gone back and edited, after re-reading your post you were definitely clear about what you just said here. I would agree that emphasizing learning plan views is the right path forward

[builtright3]

14 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Ya.  You could continue to use Active Defaults and optionally Annotation Sets for this purpose  just as always.  This is one good reason for keeping Annotation Sets around for sure.  For the record, I wasn’t actually suggesting they get rid of annotation sets entirely because that can still serve as a good organizational/annotation object group control tool.  I was only trying to point out how they’re not really necessary anymore for what most of us use them for and how they’re a redundant control for most people’s workflows.  

 

Thank you again!

I'm pretty efficient with layers and anno sets but I can see how this new information could improve my production. I will study it further.