Designer1

Wall thickness

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Can anyone give me any insight on how they display thickened exterior walls in Chief?  If you look at this one basic box plan you can see near the entry there are thickened walls so the archways appear to be more substantial then the standard 6" exterior walls.  I had sent this in to ask chief why the walls were filling in the archways and windows and they said the walls werent in alignment and so the walls fill in the windows and archways.  Does anyone know a better way to create thicker exterior walls that will properly line up in chief to prevent this fill in from happening?  I attached the plan so you can see the wall definitions.

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Chad

Solid_Doorway.plan

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I'd define the thick walls as they would be built. Not by making the stucco thick.

 

Walls want to align at the main layer, so taking 6" away from the stucco and adding it to the main layer makes them align easily.

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Thanks Eric.   If I add more depth to the main layer versus the stucco layer it gives completely two different results.  Usually if builders want thick walls (like for spanish or tuscan style homes) for arch ways or deep set windows...then in chief the best result is the added wall depth to the stucco.  If you add depth to the main layer the exterior windows remain flush but the inside window sills are deep set.

 

So my question is why cant we have it both ways with one wall type in Chief?  Ive seen both wall types used in homes... some with interior deep set windows and more commonly from the exterior the windows are deep set into the stucco side of the walls.

 

By using my method of adding depth to the stucco I get the desired result, but chief recognizes it as misaligned walls and occasionally will cover up windows and doorways like the plan I posted above.  Im hoping a chief tech support person will chime in here and perhaps a couple chief users that are builders so we can get some perspective from other users on this.  I couldnt remember why I custom made these wall types years ago but now I do.

 

Wall Thickness.plan

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Use a composite wall by adding additional Layers to make up the total recess depth. 

  • 1" Stucco
  • Housewrap
  • Sheathing - 1/2"
  • 2x4 Studs -3.5"
  • Air Gap 3.5"
  • 2x6 Studs - Main Layer
  • 1/2" Drywall

Then set the windows to recess to the Main Layer & set the Exterior Casing to 1.25"wide x 8.5" deep - material "Stucco"

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Odd... I added a second floor to your Wall Thickness plan, moved the standard Stucco-6 walls out flush with the thick wall, and the windows did not fill in... even using the windows and arched doorway from the other plan... no clue why. Looks nice though! :D

 

stucco.thumb.png.5f02e458d88ac0ff2e52cd29efc8b4b2.png

 

Wall Thickness - 2 story.plan

 

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Like the other guys above have already mentioned, I would encourage you to model that situations like it will be built, but just so you understand what is actually going on...

 

The reason your windows are "filling in" like that is because the walls below are trying to build through to reach the roof above. There's no main layer or floor above to stop them so they just keep going.  There are quite a few ways to address this depending on how it will actually be built, but one of the methods is to simply manually drag the lower walls back down in elevation...

5a468a927cda3_pic1.thumb.jpg.9d9e939a227d92dc16b560d8ea3dfff9.jpg5a468a938efb4_pic2.thumb.jpg.66afba32ba608d79304a6b81b34b2de5.jpg5a468a949622a_pic3.thumb.jpg.549c4a5523ddd353bf8fe369d69ee13f.jpg5a468a967a830_pic5.thumb.jpg.a336ec9a16d146387ca5132eafb51378.jpg5a468a9788cbf_pic6.thumb.jpg.4c8487632149ec1e45565153713a24e5.jpg

 

That may or may not be the best solution for this particular instance but hopefully that at least helps you understand a little better whats happening.  There ARE times when we are using an unusual wall definition to model actual real world conditions and so its good to know how and why Chief is doing what its doing so we can force it into submission.  There are other methods as well.

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2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Like the other guys above have already mentioned, I would encourage you to model that situations like it will be built, but just so you understand what is actually going on...

 

The reason your windows are "filling in" like that is because the walls below are trying to build through to reach the roof above. There's no main layer or floor above to stop them so they just keep going.  There are quite a few ways to address this depending on how it will actually be built, but one of the methods is to simply manually drag the lower walls back down in elevation...

5a468a927cda3_pic1.thumb.jpg.9d9e939a227d92dc16b560d8ea3dfff9.jpg5a468a938efb4_pic2.thumb.jpg.66afba32ba608d79304a6b81b34b2de5.jpg5a468a949622a_pic3.thumb.jpg.549c4a5523ddd353bf8fe369d69ee13f.jpg5a468a967a830_pic5.thumb.jpg.a336ec9a16d146387ca5132eafb51378.jpg5a468a9788cbf_pic6.thumb.jpg.4c8487632149ec1e45565153713a24e5.jpg

 

That may or may not be the best solution for this particular instance but hopefully that at least helps you understand a little better whats happening.  There ARE times when we are using an unusual wall definition to model actual real world conditions and so its good to know how and why Chief is doing what its doing so we can force it into submission.  There are other methods as well.

Good Point.  the Case of the Underground Garage.

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Thanks everyone for the informative replies. Thanks greenshell for taking the time to do that video and explain the benefits of the custom wall type.  I will change the wall type to that measure.

 

Joe, I had a question about your wall type.  Its similar to what Greenshell had posted on the video he made with minor adjustments.  You being an architect here in California and your work with using chief, is your measurements that you posted for custom exterior walls something youd use on projects requiring thicker wall?

 

1. If we go with Greenshell and Joes wall measurements would we just add another 2x6 or 2x4 if we needed a wall 18 or 24" thick?  Would we follow the same method by adding layers to create these larger 18" or 24" walls? 

 

2.  With the custom walls that Greenshell and Joe designed how would you get the windows (from the interior side of the wall) to not be recessed? If you had several 2x6 or 2x4s would you just make the an adjustment to main layer?

 

3. For interior walls Ive seen up to 24 or 36" archways. Would best measure be to just calculate the number of 2x4 or 2x6s in order to create that with the added sheetrock etc layers? Right now when I need a custom thick interior wall I just add depth to the main center layer.

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You can place the windows at any depth in the wall.

Open the window's dbx...Frame panel... uncheck Fit Frame To Wall.

Give the window frame the desired Depth

Inset....

A negative value will move the window to the outside of the wall.

A positive value will move the window to the inside of the wall.

Using this setting, you can even move the window frame right out of the wall thickness.

 

Another thing.

You could have avoided having the wall move when you changed it's definition by first going to General Wall Defaults (Alt+Q) and changing the Resize About to Outer Surface.

This would avoid the process you went through in moving the wall back to its original location. 

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Ok, I went ahead and built Joe and Greenshells wall type side by side.  I also took some recommendations from glen on framing.  The front window only on Joes wall types did I adjust any framing depth.  What recommendations do you have for best results on window framing depth/inset?

 

The main layer of the wall selections must have changed several versions ago as I dont see on wall type definitions check box for making a certain item like 2x6 the main layer?

 

Also, there were only a few small differences between Greenshell and Joes wall types. You can click on them and see the small differences.

 

Custom Wall Types.plan

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1 hour ago, Designer1 said:

3. For interior walls Ive seen up to 24 or 36" archways. Would best measure be to just calculate the number of 2x4 or 2x6s in order to create that with the added sheetrock etc layers? Right now when I need a custom thick interior wall I just add depth to the main center layer.

 

How will it be built?

 

I'd do something like this, but may not understand ...

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.48338374b459d2270c134cd0bf87e37b.jpgct2.thumb.jpg.238cfc4571dab02e0217df26f52145f7.jpg

 

 

44 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

What recommendations do you have for best results on window framing depth/inset?

 

What do you want things to look like? Many ways of handling windows in a thick wall.

 

ct3.thumb.jpg.45d2f027e892f1f3d829146a3f607bef.jpg

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Eric, Thanks for all the examples.

 

Using the two wall examples that Joe and Greenshell gave I have a few questions.

 

1. What would be the best inset/ frame depth for: (like the window you posted above)A. window inset from the interior of the home?  B. (standard interior window appearance from interior) Window inset from the exterior of the home?

 

2. If a design called for a 24" or 36" exterior wall how would you build (Joe or Greenshells custom walls) upon the wall DBX to build the larger wall?

 

Im trying to figure out how chiefs different layers and insets frames affect the windows both from the interior and exterior.  Using chiefs standard 6" walls its a no brainer because they are industry standard, while these other custom walls Im not quite sure how chief reacts and what results develop.

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Thick exterior Walls are likely going to use a Double Wall assembly , and you can use Chief's Furred Walls Option I think for that by adding an AirGap Layer to the Outside of the Inner Wall similar to what Joe mentioned.... in whatever thickness you need to make the needed depth and push it against the Outer wall.  see the tutorial below....

 

whether you want "Innie" Windows or "Outie" windows is more about Design Aesthetics / location than anything else eg are you in AZ or NM and want deep set windows to reduce heat infiltration or are you in ME or CT and want to maximise Light and perhaps have Window Seats.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00181/creating-furred-walls.html

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/cad/how-detail-exterior-insulation-existing-house-building-plans-deep-energy-retrofit

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/cad/high-r-value-walls-building-plans-double-stud-wall-construction

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Mick the furred wall option was very interesting.  I havent used that feature in chief at all, so it appears to be very useful. I will explore that option more.  Thanks for the recommendation!

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19 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Mick the furred wall option was very interesting.  I havent used that feature in chief at all, so it appears to be very useful. I will explore that option more.  Thanks for the recommendation!

 

It works well in basements , which is what I think it was developed for originally but as Double Walls and extra thick Insulation have become more mainstream it can be useful for that too , if making you own Wall definitions isn't working like it should or brings other issues, like with window and door Frames/Jambs sometimes.

 

M.

 

 

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Ive been updating my wall compositions to be more realistic.  Heres the question now... if you create the interior walls to be two interior walls set apart to be 18" it shows in 2d accurately.  However, in 3d you cannot create shaped arch doorways like chief offers.  On the other hand if you create a 18" interior wall composition it allows for chiefs doorways but then in 2d it looks incorrect, the arch is just a line representing the doorway with no framing.

 

How do you guys work with these situations in chief... you want 3d to look great but you also want the 2d to be accurate?

Double wall Floor plan.jpg

18 thick interior wall.jpg

Double interior wall.jpg

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Eric, are you just using polylines to create that?  The options for the arch arent as easily created as the doorways in chief.  I wonder if its easier to just add 2d lines to the plan with fill to get it to be more accurate?  The time savings might be greater then opting to try and recreate other archways with polyline solids?

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30 minutes ago, solver said:

2 doorways and a curved ceiling. 

 

No solids.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.030d8ee5701a169cadaf901b64af7644.jpg

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Eric and Greenshell thanks for the recommendations.  WOW Greenshell your video was great, you do such a good job you should do some of chiefs video tutorials, I even like your highlighted arrow!  Thanks for taking the time to show me a few options with this, I appreciate it a lot.

 

 

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