Designer1 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Can anyone give me any insight on how they display thickened exterior walls in Chief? If you look at this one basic box plan you can see near the entry there are thickened walls so the archways appear to be more substantial then the standard 6" exterior walls. I had sent this in to ask chief why the walls were filling in the archways and windows and they said the walls werent in alignment and so the walls fill in the windows and archways. Does anyone know a better way to create thicker exterior walls that will properly line up in chief to prevent this fill in from happening? I attached the plan so you can see the wall definitions. Thanks for any help! Chad Solid_Doorway.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Thanks Eric. If I add more depth to the main layer versus the stucco layer it gives completely two different results. Usually if builders want thick walls (like for spanish or tuscan style homes) for arch ways or deep set windows...then in chief the best result is the added wall depth to the stucco. If you add depth to the main layer the exterior windows remain flush but the inside window sills are deep set. So my question is why cant we have it both ways with one wall type in Chief? Ive seen both wall types used in homes... some with interior deep set windows and more commonly from the exterior the windows are deep set into the stucco side of the walls. By using my method of adding depth to the stucco I get the desired result, but chief recognizes it as misaligned walls and occasionally will cover up windows and doorways like the plan I posted above. Im hoping a chief tech support person will chime in here and perhaps a couple chief users that are builders so we can get some perspective from other users on this. I couldnt remember why I custom made these wall types years ago but now I do. Wall Thickness.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Use a composite wall by adding additional Layers to make up the total recess depth. 1" Stucco Housewrap Sheathing - 1/2" 2x4 Studs -3.5" Air Gap 3.5" 2x6 Studs - Main Layer 1/2" Drywall Then set the windows to recess to the Main Layer & set the Exterior Casing to 1.25"wide x 8.5" deep - material "Stucco" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Odd... I added a second floor to your Wall Thickness plan, moved the standard Stucco-6 walls out flush with the thick wall, and the windows did not fill in... even using the windows and arched doorway from the other plan... no clue why. Looks nice though! Wall Thickness - 2 story.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raltd9245 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 another approach. make main layer 2x8's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenshell Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hey Guys, Check out this Answer on our Yout Tube Channel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Like the other guys above have already mentioned, I would encourage you to model that situations like it will be built, but just so you understand what is actually going on... The reason your windows are "filling in" like that is because the walls below are trying to build through to reach the roof above. There's no main layer or floor above to stop them so they just keep going. There are quite a few ways to address this depending on how it will actually be built, but one of the methods is to simply manually drag the lower walls back down in elevation... That may or may not be the best solution for this particular instance but hopefully that at least helps you understand a little better whats happening. There ARE times when we are using an unusual wall definition to model actual real world conditions and so its good to know how and why Chief is doing what its doing so we can force it into submission. There are other methods as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenshell Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: Like the other guys above have already mentioned, I would encourage you to model that situations like it will be built, but just so you understand what is actually going on... The reason your windows are "filling in" like that is because the walls below are trying to build through to reach the roof above. There's no main layer or floor above to stop them so they just keep going. There are quite a few ways to address this depending on how it will actually be built, but one of the methods is to simply manually drag the lower walls back down in elevation... That may or may not be the best solution for this particular instance but hopefully that at least helps you understand a little better whats happening. There ARE times when we are using an unusual wall definition to model actual real world conditions and so its good to know how and why Chief is doing what its doing so we can force it into submission. There are other methods as well. Good Point. the Case of the Underground Garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thanks everyone for the informative replies. Thanks greenshell for taking the time to do that video and explain the benefits of the custom wall type. I will change the wall type to that measure. Joe, I had a question about your wall type. Its similar to what Greenshell had posted on the video he made with minor adjustments. You being an architect here in California and your work with using chief, is your measurements that you posted for custom exterior walls something youd use on projects requiring thicker wall? 1. If we go with Greenshell and Joes wall measurements would we just add another 2x6 or 2x4 if we needed a wall 18 or 24" thick? Would we follow the same method by adding layers to create these larger 18" or 24" walls? 2. With the custom walls that Greenshell and Joe designed how would you get the windows (from the interior side of the wall) to not be recessed? If you had several 2x6 or 2x4s would you just make the an adjustment to main layer? 3. For interior walls Ive seen up to 24 or 36" archways. Would best measure be to just calculate the number of 2x4 or 2x6s in order to create that with the added sheetrock etc layers? Right now when I need a custom thick interior wall I just add depth to the main center layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 You can place the windows at any depth in the wall. Open the window's dbx...Frame panel... uncheck Fit Frame To Wall. Give the window frame the desired Depth Inset.... A negative value will move the window to the outside of the wall. A positive value will move the window to the inside of the wall. Using this setting, you can even move the window frame right out of the wall thickness. Another thing. You could have avoided having the wall move when you changed it's definition by first going to General Wall Defaults (Alt+Q) and changing the Resize About to Outer Surface. This would avoid the process you went through in moving the wall back to its original location. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Ok, I went ahead and built Joe and Greenshells wall type side by side. I also took some recommendations from glen on framing. The front window only on Joes wall types did I adjust any framing depth. What recommendations do you have for best results on window framing depth/inset? The main layer of the wall selections must have changed several versions ago as I dont see on wall type definitions check box for making a certain item like 2x6 the main layer? Also, there were only a few small differences between Greenshell and Joes wall types. You can click on them and see the small differences. Custom Wall Types.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Eric, Thanks for all the examples. Using the two wall examples that Joe and Greenshell gave I have a few questions. 1. What would be the best inset/ frame depth for: (like the window you posted above)A. window inset from the interior of the home? B. (standard interior window appearance from interior) Window inset from the exterior of the home? 2. If a design called for a 24" or 36" exterior wall how would you build (Joe or Greenshells custom walls) upon the wall DBX to build the larger wall? Im trying to figure out how chiefs different layers and insets frames affect the windows both from the interior and exterior. Using chiefs standard 6" walls its a no brainer because they are industry standard, while these other custom walls Im not quite sure how chief reacts and what results develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thick exterior Walls are likely going to use a Double Wall assembly , and you can use Chief's Furred Walls Option I think for that by adding an AirGap Layer to the Outside of the Inner Wall similar to what Joe mentioned.... in whatever thickness you need to make the needed depth and push it against the Outer wall. see the tutorial below.... whether you want "Innie" Windows or "Outie" windows is more about Design Aesthetics / location than anything else eg are you in AZ or NM and want deep set windows to reduce heat infiltration or are you in ME or CT and want to maximise Light and perhaps have Window Seats. https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00181/creating-furred-walls.html http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/cad/how-detail-exterior-insulation-existing-house-building-plans-deep-energy-retrofit http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/cad/high-r-value-walls-building-plans-double-stud-wall-construction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Thanks Mick I will check out those links! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Mick the furred wall option was very interesting. I havent used that feature in chief at all, so it appears to be very useful. I will explore that option more. Thanks for the recommendation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 19 hours ago, Designer1 said: Mick the furred wall option was very interesting. I havent used that feature in chief at all, so it appears to be very useful. I will explore that option more. Thanks for the recommendation! It works well in basements , which is what I think it was developed for originally but as Double Walls and extra thick Insulation have become more mainstream it can be useful for that too , if making you own Wall definitions isn't working like it should or brings other issues, like with window and door Frames/Jambs sometimes. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Mick, thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Ive been updating my wall compositions to be more realistic. Heres the question now... if you create the interior walls to be two interior walls set apart to be 18" it shows in 2d accurately. However, in 3d you cannot create shaped arch doorways like chief offers. On the other hand if you create a 18" interior wall composition it allows for chiefs doorways but then in 2d it looks incorrect, the arch is just a line representing the doorway with no framing. How do you guys work with these situations in chief... you want 3d to look great but you also want the 2d to be accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Eric, are you just using polylines to create that? The options for the arch arent as easily created as the doorways in chief. I wonder if its easier to just add 2d lines to the plan with fill to get it to be more accurate? The time savings might be greater then opting to try and recreate other archways with polyline solids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenshell Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 This is how I handle 2D editing situations. 2D OVERLAY 2.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Eric and Greenshell thanks for the recommendations. WOW Greenshell your video was great, you do such a good job you should do some of chiefs video tutorials, I even like your highlighted arrow! Thanks for taking the time to show me a few options with this, I appreciate it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 I was thinking for Chief being as easy to use as it is, youd think by now after all these versions that you can have the above applications both ways. What do you think? I mean I love both solutions but what if you could use a wall constructed similar to how its really built (either type of wall I posted) and have either the ability for chief to allow for any of its doorway arches to work and/or use the other custom wall type and have chief recognize the doorway and complete the wall type finish between the arches. It just seems counter intuitive to take these extra steps to fully utilize chiefs easy of use tools. Maybe I could bring this up to the developers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefGrego Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Awesome Thread! How about a thick interior wall, say 10", with a niche or inset to 3 1/2" and a door set inside the niche to the study. Tims House X10_2018_02_18-niche.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 20 hours ago, Designer1 said: Ive been updating my wall compositions to be more realistic. Heres the question now... if you create the interior walls to be two interior walls set apart to be 18" it shows in 2d accurately. However, in 3d you cannot create shaped arch doorways like chief offers. On the other hand if you create a 18" interior wall composition it allows for chiefs doorways but then in 2d it looks incorrect, the arch is just a line representing the doorway with no framing. How do you guys work with these situations in chief... you want 3d to look great but you also want the 2d to be accurate? I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is. In that particular situation I wouldn't personally be building that with the 2 short walls anyway. It would just get built as 2 framed walls with a drywall (and maybe plywood) wrap and I think a single wall definition suits that situation just fine... I think at most in some circumstances I might add a couple CAD lines to show the plywood and/or drywall wrapping the opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, solver said: Michael -- I envisioned closets, for example, either side of the doorway. Would you still create a wall as you showed above? Dunno. Never had to do that before. It would depend on a number of factors I'm sure, but I imagine I would probably do something like this (similar to what you did way back in post #13)... Barrel vault.plan ...and I don't see myself using the ceiling plane framing either. I would likely just add any of those elements manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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