REVIT USER

[HumbleChief]

3 minutes ago, Jonnoxx said:

 

ALL improvement (in ANY field) comes from DISSATISFACTION.. 

 

Progress NEVER comes from satisfaction (we'd still be riding horses if that were so).

 

Consumers have a DUTY to NOT accept lame excuses from lazy companies who supply vital products that the customers' livelihood depends on.  When executives fob off loyal customers with lazy excuses like this, it is the first (and ominous) sign that they have become TIRED and COMPLACENT and have forgotten what got them their customers in the first place.

 

This is EXACTLY when they need to be prodded with a very SHARP stick by their existing customer base!

 

So long as CA can so readily find the funds to pay programmers to busy themselves with inconsequential fluff, then I don't accept the excuse that refreshing MAJOR failings in CA can't be done "because it is too expensive". There is enough money.  There usually always is.  Check the bonuses the C-suite gets.  That's the give-away.   It's a question of priorities and executive will.  And WHOSE priorities count. 

 

THAT is where those sharp sticks come in. 

 

When the CEO's backside actively feels the pointy-end, then only will CA will improve immeasurably.the way the CUSTOMERS want it.  And NOT the way the CEO and the head-in-the-clouds programmers think they should want it!  

 

Let CA off the hook in this regard and yes, your sentiment will be self-fulfilling, and you almost certainly won't see these changes in your life time.

Sorry, laughing a little, as you seem to have missed the rest of my post " I agree with your sentiment and have been frustrated by Chief's 'Floor User Interface' paradigm since I first opened the program." I actually agree with you, as I posted above, but sometimes it's better and more fun to argue a point, even with those that agree with you - I get that - but I've been around these parts for almost 20 years and have tried and tried and tried and tried to get things changed, in more ways than you'll ever know and I have seen posts with very valid sentiments like yours for almost those entire 20 years and have learned to accept Chief for what it is and the Chief personnel for who they are. Great people, great company, with simply no interest, as far as I can gauge, in making the kind of changes you are suggesting.

 

Have I given up trying to get the changes made? Yes I have. I am just too busy to try and change things that won't/can't be changed but in the meantime Chief is an awesome product that makes a living for me and I welcome any changes including the inconsequential fluff.

 

You are, however, welcome to take up the mantel of needed change at Chief Architect. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[dssharp]

I use both. The big R is way easier for con docs , legends , keynotes, ect. Chief is way better at electrical plans ,ease of changing window styles ,cabs ect. Interesting to note. I do all kitchen work in chief . Export it as a dwg model to the big R and wa la .easy docs with views I want. 

 

Any one see that blasted rabbit yet?

[HumbleChief]

14 minutes ago, dssharp said:

I use both. The big R is way easier for con docs , legends , keynotes, ect. Chief is way better at electrical plans ,ease of changing window styles ,cabs ect. Interesting to note. I do all kitchen work in chief . Export it as a dwg model to the big R and wa la .easy docs with views I want. 

 

Any one see that blasted rabbit yet?

Really wish I had the mental resources to use both programs, kudos to you sir.

[DRAWZILLA]

You'll need a lot more money too.

 

[Rashid_Garuba]

Money is meaningless unless in context of what value it buys... 

 

IF Chief came and said... "Your SSA fee will be doubled for 2 years (and a year's update will be skipped) so we can improve the UI, Stairs, and the Floor system"..  I would say absolutely!.

 

Larry.. the reason it makes sense to improve something that is clearly counter-intuitive is new customer retention. The current users that managed to learn the current system will have no trouble adjusting. Jonnoxx is not asking for a cancer cure. Like you I quit asking a looong time ago... and a quiet client base is not always good news as it robs a company of the chance to improve.

[HumbleChief]

12 minutes ago, Rashid_Garuba said:

IF Chief came and said... "Your SSA fee will be doubled for 2 years (and a year's update will be skipped) so we can improve the UI, Stairs, and the Floor system"..  I would say absolutely!.

 

Larry.. the reason it makes sense to improve something that is clearly counter-intuitive is new customer retention. The current users that managed to learn the current system will have no trouble adjusting. Jonnoxx is not asking for a cancer cure. Like you I quit asking a looong time ago... and a quiet client base is not always good news as it robs a company of the chance to improve.

Couldn't agree more....just been there, done that, for many, many years and if someone else wants to pursue the needed changes in Chief, which again, I wholeheartedly agree with, then more power and best of luck.

[Kenoeightspot]

Revit Lt. is $410/yr. Special at $360.00 first yr.

[dssharp]

1 minute ago, Kenoeightspot said:

Revit Lt. is $410/yr. Special at $360.00 first yr.

Yup. Lt is what I use . Don't really need all the engineering part of it. 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

Years ago Chief used to be on an 18 month cycle but changed it to 12 months to get new versions to us quicker, I guess it works better for them. I like it.

[glennw]

5 hours ago, Jonnoxx said:

And it would be equally simple to change the paradigm to control heights UP from the floor, and NOT down from the ceiling.

 

I am not sure what you mean by this.

Can you explain how Chief controls heights down from the ceiling?

[parkwest]

Does anyone know how to spell "voila" on here?

 

I still enjoy the concept of adjusting wall heights by clicking on the floor... that was a real mind bender when I first started designing with CA.

[facer_03]

Chief Architect - Outside its Cube?

 

I will not address Chief Architect's key faults previously listed. These faults or frustrations
for professionals are self-evident, particularly when designing outside the Cube (box or room)

Chief's business model is well defined if you study their website, review their software and follow ChiefTalk discussions.

The Chief Architect paradigm.

1. Chief Architect - uses smart design (now called BIM) linked to defined cubes (rooms).

 

2. Market focus is mainly one and two level residential.  The main structure type is stud walls with a solid brick or other veneer, or cladding.

The style is what I call "West Coast" traditional.  This style is on display on the Chief website.

 

3. Clients mainly include DIY, bath, kitchen, ensuite designers.  Small one to three person practices specialising in using the strength of Chief to provide design and documentation for single residential buildings.

 

The requests for improvements outside of the Cube or box is mainly from individuals or firms that seek or desire to expand their client base.

In some cases, the option of integrating with established medium size firms would permit associations that use their strengths

as "part of a team effort".

 

 

Will Chief make the change - outside the Cube?

 

Historical context:
I have read ChiefTalk (and its older versions) for some 20 years now and read the same
problems expressed by the new boys-girls on the block.  Left with no choice they learn
to work with Chief's Cube while keeping an eye on other evolving software.

 

The Opposition improves

Revit Lt and SketchUp 2017+ are examples of options for those who want to make the effort.
In the next few years, unless Chief changes, the above or similar software will be considered
the "best option" for those who wish to work outside the Cube.

 

I suspect (guess) that the percentage of Chief Architect users who are seriously looking for alternatives
is not high. It may make "business sense" for Chief to let this segment of their existing market go elsewhere.
Does this mean that Chief is wrong, or missing an opportunity?  I can not say, only those in authority at Chief may know.

 

My list of Chief Architect's strategic weaknesses

 

1. Chief is not recognised by medium to large building and construction firms as being a solid competitor or alternative

to Revit. (ArchiCad etc)

 

2. New graduates either have or will acquire expertise in Revit. (or other core CAD programs)
They will not easily spend time on Chief that is not commonly used in the architectural industry.

 

3. Chief Architect can not export its BIM information via IFC (Industry Foundation Classes) to the major software programs as Revit.

 This excludes or prevents association of small firms using Chief to work effectively with larger firms who are increasing using BIM.

 

Put another way Chief is forever doomed to play in its "own sandbox" till the end of time or until it changes.

So there is no specific answer for Chief but a strategic decision as to where they see its markets in the future.

 

Given the exponential change in software (A.I.) and the power of computers, it looks like we are in for some interesting years ahead.

 

Good luck to Chief Architect and thank you for all your efforts.

[mthd97]

Get the full version demo for free off the website and try it out first. I use ArchiCAD as well but CA is a very fast modeling solution for all American style houses. If you want slanted walls and the like and a very high level of customisation then look elsewhere. If your main customer base is contemporary American style houses then having a license of Chief is worth it if you got time to learn it. Those main problems with the program will be ironed out eventually in time but Chief will not be used for extreme homes anytime soon.

[Jonnoxx]

2 hours ago, mthd97 said:

Those main problems with the program will be ironed out eventually in time .

1

 

Dream on!  Apparently will NEVER happen if we pay attention to the actual experiences of the old hands - who, over >20 YEARS (when is long enough, past long enough??) , are seemingly continually fobbed off with lame excuses and thrown breadcrumbs of inconsequential fluff, instead of real WANTED improvements.

 

@facer_03

I completely agree with your assessment of the situation, and especially the list of CA's strategic weaknesses.  Spot on!

 

IMO, Revit has the absolute worst user-interface imaginable, but continues to get away with this deficiency (a design relic from the past when this WAS the acceptable UI standard) because the capabilities of Revit are simply still quite awesome, and the underlying logic of using the program is actually quite logical once you can remember which buttons to push where.  Sort of like climbing into an old-style 747 cockpit for the first time, and being bedazzled by the plethora of buttons, lights, dials and levers.  Once you know your way around aircraft cockpits, you soon see that there is a sort of universal design convention applicable to all.  It doesn't help when cockpit designers stray off these conventions for their own eccentric and not very good reasons (my problem with CA). 

 

By contrast, there clearly seems to be a wind of welcome change sweeping through Autodesk.  They are leaving AutoCAD  pretty much alone (the old-school die-hard adherents always actively resist change.  Sigh!).   Instead, Autodesk are clearly deploying major shake-ups in their CAD line by developing fresh new products which are clearly being positioned to ultimately challenge their old-style products. 

 

I'm mightily impressed with FUSION and INFRAWORKS, for example.  Wonderful, easy to use, and responsive interfaces.  And the ADESK development teams are ACTIVELY seeking out User feedback, GENUINELY listening to it, and IMPLEMENTING it as fast as they can.  It is only a matter of time before these fantastic interfaces morph into full-fledged replacements for Civil 3D.  Hopefully the same also happens to Revit.

 

In the end, when a company (ANY company) develops an intransigent attitude towards AGGRESSIVE self-improvement of its product for the customer benefit and loses its enthusiasm to ACTIVELY engage with its customers (and potential customers) on the priorities thereof, this has to be an ominous warning sign in the management suite.

 

These problems almost always are DIRECT symptoms of the PERSONAL attitudes of the key executives in the C-suite.

 

Microsoft had the same problem.  Swop Balmer out and put Nadella in, and what a breath of fresh air!  Microsoft has been rejuvenated and has regained its old mojo, and is back on a tear.

 

It seems the same thing needs to happen at CA? 

 

You are right.  I can only watch from the sidelines.

 

What do you think, Greg Wells?

[brian-sdesign]

It seems like the overall theme is to attract new users is more important than keeping existing users. It really could be a great piece of software if they grow in the right direction. 

[Jonnoxx]

3 minutes ago, brian-sdesign said:

It seems like the overall theme is to attract new users is more important than keeping existing users. It really could be a great piece of software if they grow in the right direction. 

 

 

Completely agree!

 

CA has the potential to put the other architectural programs on notice - if only CA would get with the enthusiasm for being the very best they CAN be.

 

I get that their self-defined market niche is the small residential builder.  And I get that it would be a big mistake to try and be everything to everybody. I'm NOT asking for that.

 

But it seems to me that "sticking to the defined market niche" is being used as a disingenuous and lazy excuse to avoid essential and - to my point - ultimately hugely beneficial product improvements that would make EVERYBODY happy.
 

[HumbleChief]

Great posts and insights both facer and Jonnoxx IMO and you really seem to have a grip on the current situation and the market as it relates to Chief. Major change seems to come very slowly to this company but will it prove their undoing? Or will it serve their current market focus of small firm, single family residential homes and kitchen/bath design far in to the future. No way to tell but the decision at the company seems very clear. Stay focused on their current market and leave the larger markets to the larger players.

 

Staying with what brung ya can be a great business decision but if the winds of change blow through the design industry, and they blow against you, it can be a long hard business lesson to recover from. Can't see the future but am hoping for the best for Chief in the long run.

[HumbleChief]

3 minutes ago, Jonnoxx said:

 

Completely agree!

 

CA has the potential to put the other architectural programs on notice - if only CA would get with the enthusiasm for being the very best they CAN be.

 

I get that their self-defined market niche is the small residential builder.  And I get that it would be a big mistake to try and be everything to everybody. I'm NOT asking for that.

 

But it seems to me that "sticking to the defined market niche" is being used as a disingenuous and lazy excuse to avoid essential and - to my point - ultimately hugely beneficial product improvements that would make EVERYBODY happy.
 

+1

[HumbleChief]

I know that the number of posts showing on the simple forum profile is not a direct link to the length of time someone has been in the forums or with Chief architect but in case there are relatively new forum members, or Chief users here it might be beneficial to posts your thoughts in the suggestions forum. I would personally like to see this conversation (again) in that forum rather than in this thread where some great suggestions might more easily be ignored.

[dssharp]

I think personally this seems to be an issue of what chief architect wants to do with the program. We all complain,say they need to catch up yada yada yada.

its a great program for basic designs and typical work.  The kitchen design part is great. They want to offer to builders,diy people and add a little for those that do con docs . Some Architects use chief ,  But chief doesn't use the standard that many are used to. And that's ok. They can become and market to whoever they want. Point is im having a hard time paying for ssa year after year,and then I have to deal with stuff like attic walls,callouts (which has been talked about over and over). I don't need to see a reflection from toilet paper rolls . I need decent graphical presentations, good con docs and phases (as- built,demo,and new) . No cad living in the background on some layer ect. 

 

So it'll be for some , not for others.

btw I haven't seen anyone's suggestion on the forum  come true.

[BrownTiger]

22 minutes ago, dssharp said:

Point is im having a hard time paying for ssa year after year,and then I have to deal with stuff like attic walls,callouts (which has been talked about over and over). I don't need to see a reflection from toilet paper rolls .

+1000

 

I have hard time understanding future directions or roadmap of CA.

 

X9 appear to bring: 

a) Touch screen interface

b ) Stair paneling

c) Open shelf cabinets

d) Wall / shower niches

e) Undo / redo performance improvement

 

[dshall]

Are you guys kidding?  Only 500/year an you get the latest version?  What's the problem?  

 

I love it when my clients go somewhere else to get a "better deal".  They always come back.  You guys go off and try SP or REVIT or ACAD,  you will be back.  

[dssharp]

Sry , already there scott

[mthd97]

Jonnoxx, I have had many of my specific requests applied in latter versions of CA and that is why I am still here. If you could specify clearly the problems you have with using Chief in the right section of the forum, and if they are legitimate they will get listened to and applied. I think you need to have more respect for the CEO and the work the programmer's put into Chief with the resources they have. Perfection is not possible in this world but we all aim to do our best with what we have. I don't regret having Chief in my tool box for my work since V6.0 1999. No problems no upgrades.

[mthd97]

Ironing out problems, is my illustration of fixing them, the small ones take one pass, the bigger ones, take several or more passes to iron them out. As to rewriting parts of the program CA have done that in the past and will do it again if necessary. We need to show the team trust and the more we show the more response we get.