Muhammad_Habib

How to make Groove in Wall

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Hi there, 


Please guide me, how to make inside/recessed molding for making groove in wall/plaster using Chief. This should be without creating additional objects upon the wall, just want to have cuts in wall.


 


Regards


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Not sure whether its faster than just creating panels on the surface or not, but you can use a material region, set it to cut surface and (depending on the situation) either:

 

A.  Make it thinner than the wall finish and use a dark color to create a shadow line

B.  Use Opening (no material) for the material.

C.  Put it on a unique layer and turn the layer off

 

Hopefully that helps get you headed in the right direction.

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Actually, after giving it a little thought, I think the method I mentioned above is actually quite a bit faster than creating panels.  You could very easily create a grid work out of standard strip shaped polylines, group select them, polyline union, and convert to material region.  A lot of possibility.

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Thanks for the reply, Alaskan.

 

I have tried what you have suggested. 

 

But a material region cannot be placed inside a wall edge, to get a cut/groove/trim effect.

 

And applying an open material, it is giving just a shadow effect, not a trim/cut effect. 

 

May be I am not understanding what you talking about. 

post-12564-0-92163400-1466661637_thumb.jpg

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But a material region cannot be placed inside a wall edge, to get a cut/groove/trim effect.

 

 

You need to check "Cut Finish Layers of Parent Object" - then the Material Region will cut into the wall thickness and give you a recessed shadow line.

I think you are going to have problems at the vertical wall edges though.

The MR will not wrap around a corner.

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I did not test all of the solutions provided above but was able to use the custom backsplash tool in two layers to cut the material on the corner of the wall.

 

Layer 1: set to  Opening (no material) and make long enough to cut corner material away

 

Layer 2: set to Black or shadowy colour and stop at inside corner.  You can use the Copy and Paste in Place tool to make the second layer and then just edit the colour and shorten accordingly.

 

Not sure if this is the same theory as what Michael said in short, maybe so. Yes it must be because you will not want the 1st  Opening layer to show in plan view.

post-4797-0-82396800-1466667272_thumb.jpg

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What I can get from a Material Region approach is in attached images. A 2 inch one layer MR, with Open Material.

Tried also with 2 layers, one Open and second Black color material, also did not put the effect as shown in the image.

No recessed effect yet.

Need also to have desired color in this groove.

post-12564-0-41799200-1466674383_thumb.jpg

post-12564-0-49637600-1466674385_thumb.jpg

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Check your wall layers. As it says it cuts "finish" layers. If the outside layer is part of main layer it has nothing to cut.

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You are almost there now. Just be sure to select "Cut Finish Layers of Parent Object" as Glenn and Michael referred to. See Attached.

post-4797-0-75011800-1466703722_thumb.jpg

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Okay, so I played with this a bit for you.  First things first...A couple quick notes:

1.  You need to use a wall material region, it must be drawn on the wall in an elevation view, and it must be set to Cut Finish Layers Of Parent Object.  Looks like maybe you're using a floor material region (drawn in plan view).

2.  Forget what i said about using Opening (no material).  Not sure what I was thinking, there's really no benefit to that option. 

 

I would usually just use panels applied to the surface for this sort of thing so I hadn't really explored the methods I mentioned above until now.  It actually works pretty well except for a few things...

A.  There seems to be a handful of bugs associated with material regions that make converting the polyline grid work less than efficient and so its a little more time consuming than what I thought it would be.  There also seem to be a handful of small bugs associated with material regions in general that make the method pretty tedious.  Because of that I'm thinking panels applied to the surface might be just as fast. 

B.  Glenn is correct that the corners are somewhat of an issue.  I didn't think they would be because all we're doing is cutting the finish away however I hadn't accounted for the layers we're using to actually cut those finish layers. 

C.  The material region will cut through ALL your finish layers (some of which we would want to leave in place in the real world).

 

So, here are my conclusions...

The method I described should really only be used for show and will not be entirely accurate.  If you want accuracy you can set the material region to account for the finish layers that will be remaining but then you have the issues at the corners.  So, if you don't want to apply panels to the surface I would personally just apply the material regions (any materials at all actually) and use the last of those 3 methods I mentioned above...put them on a unique layer and just turn the layer off.  If you go this route you'll probably want to add a zero (or very thin) thickness color to your walls main layers so your framing isn't exposed.  Here's a very quick sample plan...

post-46-0-38112800-1466703607_thumb.jpg

Groove plan.plan

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Solved !

Thanks for suggestions and given time; Michael, Glenn, (person from Canada), Justmejerry,  & Chopsaw. Specially, Michael work helped me. It was my first ever post to Chieftalk.

My problem had been, I wasn't be able to place Material Region inside of finish layer of the Wall. Now I understand that MR gets snap to any finish layer inside or outside of Wall.

Yet,
1. MR specifications is not giving us its height location upon the wall. So I cannot put 2 feet, 4 feet height from floor etc. Also, no vertical thickness size from keyboard input. If there is any, do please inform me.
2. Which particular object I can draw to convert to MR?

3. MR can also be other than boxed shape, like round or custom molding shape?

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1. In an elevation view, you can use either temp or permanent dims to size and locate a MR.

2. A polyline, a polysolid, circle or ant enclosed cad shape. 

3. Edit the MR shape or draw what you want with cad and then convert to MR.

 

Maybe it's time to start helping yourself by reading the manual and trying a few things.

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This should keep you busy until Michael wakes up. I think you can use any polyline shape and convert to Material Region and edit before or after. Work in Elevation View and use dimensions to size and position.

Keep on Building, Chopsaw

post-4797-0-62069100-1466753843_thumb.jpg

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OK for the answers, Glenn & Chopsaw. Will use them.

 

What we have discussed here, most of it would not be in any manual, forum, or help videos. That's why I asked here.

 

The software is made mostly for Wooden & Sheeting construction, with Pitched Roof & Trusses & their material quantities. While, in our areas, 99% construction is with RCC frame structure, with brick and flat roof. Molding the software to our environment is my personal to my community issue. I want maximum of whole building design & documentation with Chief alone. For this mission, I have to discuss more topics here. Hope, I always be helped, as this time.

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Okay, so I played with this a bit for you.  First things first...A couple quick notes:

1.  You need to use a wall material region, it must be drawn on the wall in an elevation view, and it must be set to Cut Finish Layers Of Parent Object.  Looks like maybe you're using a floor material region (drawn in plan view).

2.  Forget what i said about using Opening (no material).  Not sure what I was thinking, there's really no benefit to that option. 

 

I would usually just use panels applied to the surface for this sort of thing so I hadn't really explored the methods I mentioned above until now.  It actually works pretty well except for a few things...

A.  There seems to be a handful of bugs associated with material regions that make converting the polyline grid work less than efficient and so its a little more time consuming than what I thought it would be.  There also seem to be a handful of small bugs associated with material regions in general that make the method pretty tedious.  Because of that I'm thinking panels applied to the surface might be just as fast. 

B.  Glenn is correct that the corners are somewhat of an issue.  I didn't think they would be because all we're doing is cutting the finish away however I hadn't accounted for the layers we're using to actually cut those finish layers. 

C.  The material region will cut through ALL your finish layers (some of which we would want to leave in place in the real world).

 

So, here are my conclusions...

The method I described should really only be used for show and will not be entirely accurate.  If you want accuracy you can set the material region to account for the finish layers that will be remaining but then you have the issues at the corners.  So, if you don't want to apply panels to the surface I would personally just apply the material regions (any materials at all actually) and use the last of those 3 methods I mentioned above...put them on a unique layer and just turn the layer off.  If you go this route you'll probably want to add a zero (or very thin) thickness color to your walls main layers so your framing isn't exposed.  Here's a very quick sample plan...

 

One additional idea to add to this:

 

You can also consider using multiple walls side by side in order to avoid cutting through the substrate layers.  Something like this...

-Wall #1 might have interior finish layers, framing layer, exterior sheathing, and building wrap

-Wall #2 might have a black or exterior finish colored "shadow line" material for the main layer followed by your exterior finish layer(s).

-Your material region "grooves" would be applied to Wall #2 and again...the material regions would go onto their own layer and simply be turned off. 

 

This way your details and model will be a lot more accurate. 

 

Quick sample plan just to give you a very rough idea...

 

post-46-0-40648500-1466892668_thumb.jpg

Groove 2.plan

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Michael I must say you are quite a talented user of this software.

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Michael I must say you are quite a talented user of this software.

 

Thank you Alan, that is very kind of you.

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I've tried a couple of options in the past and ended up using Exterior room polylines converted to molding. Worked well with door and window openings. Used a square molding (handrail) and multiple copied horizontal grooves vertically. Vertical cad lines converted also. I had trouble making the long narrow grooves with the material region. I also did the multiple copy polyline solids, but too much work for the openings (trim).

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One additional idea to add to this:

 

You can also consider using multiple walls side by side in order to avoid cutting through the substrate layers.  Something like this...

-Wall #1 might have interior finish layers, framing layer, exterior sheathing, and building wrap

-Wall #2 might have a black or exterior finish colored "shadow line" material for the main layer followed by your exterior finish layer(s).

-Your material region "grooves" would be applied to Wall #2 and again...the material regions would go onto their own layer and simply be turned off. 

 

This way your details and model will be a lot more accurate. 

 

Quick sample plan just to give you a very rough idea...

Perfect solution Michael.

thanks for sharing

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... I also did the multiple copy polyline solids, but too much work for the openings (trim).

 

 

I made this video a while back and realized afterward that I could have used a quicker method by group selecting the polyline solids and completing the polyline subtraction for each window and door in a single step, but it might help some of you.  I personally still like the added panels to the surface method.  Doesn't seem all that difficult or time consuming to me.  It just requires a little more cleanup than the material region method does if you decided to make any changes to the walls, doors, windows, etc...

 

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I made this video a while back and realized afterward that I could have used a quicker method by group selecting the polyline solids and completing the polyline subtraction for each window and door in a single step, but it might help some of you.  I personally still like the added panels to the surface method.  Doesn't seem all that difficult or time consuming to me.  It just requires a little more cleanup than the material region method does if you decided to make any changes to the walls, doors, windows, etc...

 

 

I remember that video. Well done. My project came up before that. Mine had step-backs on all sides and the molding polyline worked good enough

post-69-0-91157700-1466914927_thumb.jpg

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Not sure of all the details but likely the best method would be a pass through window.  Create a square Pass-Through window and remove the casing if you like and the frame also can be removed.  You must remove the sill,  and make it a Round Top Arch and then Reflect it Vertically.  If you need a smaller hole just use a power drill.;)           

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I am working on a project right now with stucco joints and a composite wood grain panels, i used the material regions for the panels and stucco joints, i used polyline solids for the posts..

 

MATERIAL REGION STUCCO JOINTS.jpg

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