Why is plan so slow?

[dshall]

Hi  guys,  would you mind taking a look at this plan and see if it is acting slow to you. Edit a few walls,  delete them,  change lengths etc. The slowness is  unbearable and I am just getting started.

 

It will be a mini storage which consists of many many walls but not much else.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sqov2mvhqkspn9/TEMESCAL%20WHY%20SO%20SLOW%201.plan?dl=0  

[Chopsaw]

Hi Scott, Your plan is rather slow on my machine as well ( but not the slowest that I have dealt with ). I suppose walls in Chief are more complex than they appear to be. You would know the answer to this better than I so just a thought, what about trying a cad detail view? I tried taking the concrete fill out of you walls and no improvement. No bugs detected with Windows security essentials. Quite a mystery. My GPU handles the 3D well, just the floor plan is slow???

[Alaskan_Son]

I'm not at my computer to test it for you Scott, but do you have any DWG, PDF, or image files hanging out in that plan view somewhere?

[Joe_Carrick]

Scott,

 

This is just too many walls, doors, ceiling planes, etc for Chief to handle.  I would just show the perimeter walls and a couple of rooms (typical layout) then use simple CAD Rectangles to indicate the repeated nature of the project.

 

This is a typical process for documenting plans for hotels, hospitals, dormitories, etc.  You are only going to need to show the dimensions etc for a couple of typical units.

 

I would probably split this into 2 building Plans - one for the narrow building and one for the wider building.  Then I would show the end units and one of the interior units with a note that the interior unit is to be duplicated 'x' times.  KISS !!!!

 

And for the Site Plan I would place Symbols of those 2 buildings.

[DRAWZILLA]

Slow for me as well, not sure why. Maybe Joe is on to it. Do a typical unit plan for each different style, but if you need a full overview, takes a while to get there, but ok once you see it.. Maybe a faster computer would handle it. Titan video card 12gb memory , faster CPU. Of course that all cost money. This would make me turn down that job or include the cost of the new computer in the price.

[Joe_Carrick]

Slow for me as well, not sure why. Maybe Joe is on to it. Do a typical unit plan for each different style, but if you need a full overview, your screwed. Maybe a faster computer would handle it. Titan video card 12gb memory , faster CPU. Of course that all cost money. This would make me turn down that job or include the cost of the new computer in the price.

Perry,

 

A Full Overview is easy.  You just need two Building Shells - converted to Symbols - and then placed in another Plan (Site Plan) along with the Terrain, Roads, etc. 

[DRAWZILLA]

Joe, I edited my post about the overviews, you didn't see it, it does take a while to come up, but ok after that.

[Joe_Carrick]

Joe, I edited my post about the overviews, you didn't see it, it does take a while to come up, but ok after that.

But by using Symbols as I suggested - the overview is almost instantaneous.  BTW, I would have done the basic plan using CAD Lines or Boxes and then just added the Exterior Walls and Doors.  That gets the Building Shell which can be used as the overall Floor Plan and provides for the typical units to be done.  There is absolutely no reason to provide the detail for each and every unit.

[dshall]

...... There is absolutely no reason to provide the detail for each and every unit.

 

 

Nuts,  that is  how we get a count on doors etc. 

 

I wonder if this issue has anything to do with instancing?  This might be a  project for a a different file for each building and then using symbols to put in the site plan file for a 3d view.  But then do I lose count of the doors for all 9 buildings?  

 

Thanks Joe,  Perry,  Michael and Chopsaw  (should I just call you Chop?).

 

I must admit the performance for this project is very very very disappointing.  What I have shown is maybe 50% of the  project.  This storage  unit project actually has a second floor.  And then there are outlying buildings on the site.  I could  not imagine how JPC would model one of his Multi Unit Building Projects.

 

Very disappointing performance out  of CA for what I consider a very rudimentary project.

 

And some folks build 30 story building in this program?  Are  you kidding me?

[HumbleChief]

Very slow here too with a pretty fast set-up. Must be the number of walls and I would also find that unbearable to work on but would not have suspected a model with simply a lot of walls would be so slow.

 

Let us know what you decide to speed it up.

[DRAWZILLA]

Larry has dual Zeon's going, there goes my theory on a new processor. Has to be a Chief thing

[Joe_Carrick]

Nuts,  that is  how we get a count on doors etc. 

 

I wonder if this issue has anything to do with instancing?  This might be a  project for a a different file for each building and then using symbols to put in the site plan file for a 3d view.  But then do I lose count of the doors for all 9 buildings?  

 

Thanks Joe,  Perry,  Michael and Chopsaw  (should I just call you Chop?).

 

Scott,

 

You could get a count of the doors by just providing multiple Door Schedules.  But do you really need to do that?  Let the contractor and subs figure that out.  You provide the typical unit plans with schedules for each of those and a note indicating how may units there are. 

 

As far as your comment about 30 story buildings....  Just consider that each interior wall in the model is comprised of 18 surfaces (basically 3 cubes) and you have thousands of walls.  If I was doing a 30 Story building I would only model the exterior walls, stairways and elevators on floors 3-29.

[Joe_Carrick]

This points out the difference between someone who normally is doing single family homes where every room is unique - and someone doing a project where most of the rooms are exact duplicates. 

 

The work-flow is totally different.  Repeated elements only need to be shown once.  Generally at a 1/4" scale with dimensions and annotations.  Only the additional elements that are unique need to also be shown in detail.

[Alaskan_Son]

This points out the difference between someone who normally is doing single family homes where every room is unique - and someone doing a project where most of the rooms are exact duplicates.

The work-flow is totally different. Repeated elements only need to be shown once. Generally at a 1/4" scale with dimensions and annotations. Only the additional elements that are unique need to also be shown in detail.

Yep. This is one reason I think Chief really needs to improve its instancing capabilities. We are so close...yet so far.

[dshall]

This points out the difference between someone who normally is doing single family homes where every room is unique - and someone doing a project where most of the rooms are exact duplicates. 

 

The work-flow is totally different.  Repeated elements only need to be shown once.  Generally at a 1/4" scale with dimensions and annotations.  Only the additional elements that are unique need to also be shown in detail.

 

 

 Joe,  I am not sure how many mini storage projects you have drawn,  but I have drawn at least 4....  by hand.  So I am aware of how to draw these things.  

 

But more to the point,  why would I want to draw these 5x5 storage cubicles with CAD lines?  I know I can do it,   but wouldn't I rather draw what is being built?  Is this where instancing comes into play?

 

I am very surprised that this project is so slow.

 

If CA can't handle such a relatively simple structure,  let this be a warning to anybody else who might ask the question,  should I draw this project in CA or should I draw it in REVIT?

[DRAWZILLA]

It got a little faster by turning off the doors.

[DRAWZILLA]

I would do it in Revit for sure if you can.

[joey_martin]

FWIW....My X7 stalled on just about every plan I worked on. I was using X6 until X8 came out. X8 is super fast compared to what I was faced with in X7. Worked with tech support for try and fix my issue but when X8 ran so well, we gave up.

 

Having said all of that, this plan was pretty slow for me as well.

[Joe_Carrick]

 Joe,  I am not sure how many mini storage projects you have drawn,  but I have drawn at least 4....  by hand.  So I am aware of how to draw these things.  

 

But more to the point,  why would I want to draw these 5x5 storage cubicles with CAD lines?  I know I can do it,   but wouldn't I rather draw what is being built?  Is this where instancing comes into play?

 

I am very surprised that this project is so slow.

 

If CA can't handle such a relatively simple structure,  let this be a warning to anybody else who might ask the question,  should I draw this project in CA or should I draw it in REVIT?

 

I honestly have only done 1 storage building - but I've done many hospitals, office buildings, etc.  All of them logically use the process I've outlined.

 

I didn't say you should draw each 5'x5' storage cubical as CAD Lines.  But why would you want or need to show each cubical at all?

 

IAE, the slowness is probably not Chief itself but rather the GPU getting bogged down by an excessive number of surfaces.  I'm not sure how much CA is using instancing when you make copies and I doubt that they do so at all for anything except Symbols and the contents of Blocks.  Each wall, door, etc is a unique object that can be easily edited as an individual unit.  It's position makes that mandatory.  OTOH, a Block or Symbol can just have xyz coordinates and orientation along with a "pointer" to the underlying object.  That's what instancing is all about.

 

I doubt that Revit would be much faster with all of your project in a single Model. 

[Joe_Carrick]

BTW, the title of this thread is Why is plan so slow?

 

That's what I have tried to explain.  I understand that you want to include all the detail of every cubical of every building but IMO that's unrealistic and silly.  You are pushing the limits of the hardware and MAYBE the software by including so many surfaces in your model.  Don't blame Chief for what the GPU can't do.

[DRAWZILLA]

Chief simply does not have the engine that Revit has. That's why you have to pay the big bucks for it.

[dshall]

Thanks guys,   I now understand,   CA can't handle this.

 

 I am not sure if a 30 story building would have more or fewer walls,  probably more,  in fact the 30 story might have a bathroom on the 16th floor,  heaven forbid,    so   why does CA advertise it can do a 30 story building?  Maybe a 30 story shell,  but not a 30 story building.

 

CA can do a 30 story building if you draw it in CAD,  and then do a separate door schedule for each floor which is in a separate plan.  I got  it,  let's just be honest about the limitations of the program.

[dshall]

...... But why would you want or need to show each cubical at all?........

 

 

Joe,  is that a serious question?  The last thing my client and I did before he left my office this morning was to count the number of storage units.  Yep,  we counted every last unit and then multiplied by the number of buildings.

[Joe_Carrick]

Scott & Perry,

 

I don't think it's the software.  Scott's model has about 250000 surfaces (180000 with out the doors) and that's a multiple of what is normally being processed by the GPU.  Revit or any other CAD program would have the same problem.  Revit might be a bit faster but it might even be slower.  The only way it would be faster is if it allows walls and other architectural objects to be blocked.

[DRAWZILLA]

I also would show each building as a whole using a small scale with larger paper size as needed, with all the units, but only show any details in the unit plan. Also show total building dimensions.