HumbleChief

More Structure dbx Challenges

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Been working on this for a while and am missing something. Any help appreciated. BTW the floor ceiling heights were perfect during some phase of the model creation. Desperate - thanks.

 

 

Plan here

 

FLOOR HEIGHTS 1.zip

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I really think this is a good example of what I am talking about.  I run into this sort of thing all the time - and if Larry has a hard time with it, I know I won't get it.

 

What makes you want to get an automated result from the Dbx - why not just model the foundation/slab using poly-solids etc?

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I really think this is a good example of what I am talking about.  I run into this sort of thing all the time - and if Larry has a hard time with it, I know I won't get it.

 

What makes you want to get an automated result from the Dbx - why not just model the foundation/slab using poly-solids etc?

Sigh. I run into this sort of thing constantly as well. Getting the model correct using Chief's tools seems to be a good idea but sometimes it's crazy making and requires knowledge of the program beyond my capabilities.

 

Never really thought about using a p-line solid for the foundation but I guess it's possible.

 

I'll try opening a new plan and see if there's a setting I'm missing somewhere. It has to be simple, no?

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Here are my Room dbx settings:

 

Floor 0

post-95-0-85503300-1438027202_thumb.png

 

Floor 1

post-95-0-75781100-1438027218_thumb.png

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Larry,  you do not have the floor structure defined in many if not all of your rooms.  You can fight it or you can learn to define the floor structures.  What you are doing in my mind is very typical for CA and I have very few problems with it.  

 

I have done many many many videos on foundations and slabs that you might want to review.

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Yeah,   check out what Robert is showing.

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Section:

post-95-0-70211500-1438027439_thumb.png

...it's not perfect yet, but it's headed in the right direction.

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I agree wtih Robert & Scott.  Many of the rooms don't have the floor structure defined.  Also, I believe the FDN below is causing some issues.  I got something very similar to Robert, but I had to reset the FDN, and change all the floor defaults to match.  From there I was able to "lower the room down.  Like Robert said...not perfect, but what he has is going the right direction.

 

check out Scott's videos.  For me once I set the floor structure defaults to match, it was simple (to me) to lower the floor to get something like what you were going for.

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Section:

attachicon.gifsection.PNG

...it's not perfect yet, but it's headed in the right direction.

 

Okay,  so Robert does not have all of the answers.  

 

Give up on doing it auto,  faster to do it manually.

 

Think of it this way....  build the concrete stem walls for the raised floor and then come back and put in your slab footings......  THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF THE STEM WALLS.  I have found the most success in keeping the two separate.  The slab should be defined by it's own footings and not necessarily reliant on the concrete stem walls.

 

Again,  I have done countless vids on this type of a thing.

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Thanks so much for taking the time you guys - really appreciate it. I tried so many different ways I forgot what plan I posted. I'll review everything again and see what I come up with. I had the floor structure defined in a different plan and tried it without just to see what I could come up with.

 

I'll try again.

 

Scott are you suggesting I put in the slab footings manually not using the room dbx?

 

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Larry,

 

Here's your Plan fixed.  Basically, I just made sure that all "C" & "D" dimensions for those rooms were all -24".  I had to reset some of the "Mono Slab" check boxes.

FLOOR HEIGHTS 1-JC.zip

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.....

Scott are you suggesting I put in the slab footings manually not using the room dbx?.....

 

I do not understand the question.  If you have watched any of my foundation vids,  you will understand what I am talking about.

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Thanks for all the help. Finally got it fixed using Robert's dbx's. Not sure where it went so far south. I'll check your plans Joe, Perry - Thanks. 

 

Scott, I have watched countless videos and they are very informative but sometimes I forget a few basics and can't re-run a specific video that pertains to this situation in my mind.

 

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Larry,

 

Here's your Plan fixed.  Basically, I just made sure that all "C" & "D" dimensions for those rooms were all -24".  I had to reset some of the "Mono Slab" check boxes.

Nothing there Joe

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I guess I was confused not thinking that the 'floor' of the foundation room should have been -24". That's not very real world, but one day it might sink into my thick skull.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

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Nothing there Joe

Sorry, I forgot to close before zipping - check it now.

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One more anomaly that I wonder if you can understand. Both Joe and Perry's plans have the same (incorrect) ceiling height in this single room but when I change the ceiling height all the room floor and ceiling heights change....just discovered that if I check the default ceiling height it works, but not if entering values manually - didn't know that - and didn't know that entering ceiling heights in one room will change them in every other room..

 

I know by the time you see these plans they can be pretty screwed up from trying many different things but this plan was perfect, then it wasn't. 

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

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Larry,

 

The best way to change the ceiling heights for individual rooms is by editing the Ceiling Finish or sometimes the Ceiling Structure definition.  If you have a second Floor you might have to edit the Floor Structure dbx for the Floor above (or just add a "Soffit" covering the lowered ceiling.  I avoid changing those figures directly because it modifies everything else so that the Structure is not modified.

 

I won't say that I think Chief is doing it the easiest way, but I understand the logic.

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I appreciate your time in creating these videos Larry.  It helps to know others have similar issues like this trying to us Dbx's for automated results.  I also got a nice tidbit of info on the "similar properties" match Dbx, but I agree with you overall - some of this is "spooky action at a distance".

 

 

"In physics, action at a distance is the concept that an object can be moved, changed, or otherwise affected without being physically touched

(as in mechanical contact) by another object. That is, it is the nonlocal interaction of objects that are separated in space."

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Larry,

 

The best way to change the ceiling heights for individual rooms is by editing the Ceiling Finish or sometimes the Ceiling Structure definition.  If you have a second Floor you might have to edit the Floor Structure dbx for the Floor above (or just add a "Soffit" covering the lowered ceiling.  I avoid changing those figures directly because it modifies everything else so that the Structure is not modified.

 

I won't say that I think Chief is doing it the easiest way, but I understand the logic.

Joe,

 

Didn't you find that a bit weird Joe that changing the ceiling height in that one room change all the floor and ceiling heights in all the other rooms?

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Larry,

 

Here's my understanding of this issue:

 

1.  You have a Roof Structure above and if you change the "Ceiling Height" in the dbx it moves the entire Roof Structure up or down accordingly and thereby modifies all rooms.

2.  OTOH, if you modify the "Ceiling Finish" definition in one room to add an "Air Gap" and "2x4 Framing" then the Finish Ceiling will move down without effecting the other Rooms.

3.  In some cases you can modify the Ceiling Structure but that only works with a Floor above.  Changing the Ceiling Finish seems to be the best alternative.

 

It would seem to me that changing the "Ceiling Height" should at least give the option to modify the "Ceiling Finish" definition.  But that's not the way it works at this time.

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Larry,

 

Here's my understanding of this issue:

 

1.  You have a Roof Structure above and if you change the "Ceiling Height" in the dbx it moves the entire Roof Structure up or down accordingly and thereby modifies all rooms.

I DO NOT THINK THIS IS CORRECT.  IF THE ROOF IS ALREADY THERE,  IT WILL  NOT MOVE

2.  OTOH, if you modify the "Ceiling Finish" definition in one room to add an "Air Gap" and "2x4 Framing" then the Finish Ceiling will move down without effecting the other Rooms.

ONLY DO THIS IDF YOU WANT A SOFFIT IN THE ROOM

3.  In some cases you can modify the Ceiling Structure but that only works with a Floor above.  Changing the Ceiling Structure seems to be the best alternative.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.  IN FACT I THINK IT IS JUST THE OPPOSITE.

 

It would seem to me that changing the "Ceiling Height" should at least give the option to modify the "Ceiling Finish" definition.

I COMPLETLY DISAGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT.

 

I do not mean to be a smart a**,  but I think there has been some misinformation in this thread,  and if there is not any misinformation in this thread,  I need to go back to school on this.

 

I will say that I am a bit disappointed in the fact there are some experienced users who do not understand how CA is working......  and if it I who is wrong and they are correct,  then it is me who is all screwed up.

 

Some of you guys,  including me,  are going to the UGM in about a month,  we are expected to understand how CA is now working and how we may be able to help CA improve the program.  If we go in there and spend our time trying to get us on the same page,  this will be a missed opportunity for us.

 

I suggest that we get together for a GTM and discuss issues such as this BEFORE WE GO TO IDAHO.

 

If we can't agree on how to build a model,  how can we assist CA.

 

One last thing before I pull my foot out of my mouth.......  one of the most important things for me is for CA to be able to build a STRUCTURAL MODEL correctly so I get clear PLAN VIEWS and clear SECTION CUTS.  I believe Perry and I are in agreement in some areas that need addressing including ROOF FRAMING and FOUNDATION BUILDING.  It  would be great if we did have a GTM to identify areas that we can discuss with the CA folks.  It will be less  confusing to them if we can come in as a block of users who agree on some basic improvements that should be implemented.

 

Let me know if you guys are interested,  but as far as I am concerned,  this is some pretty basic stuff that does not always work perfectly.

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Scott,

 

I think you need to go back to school.  My testing backs up what I said and I think before you make corrections you should test.  Then if you really disagree call me and we can do a GTM to verify - and if you were correct I would modify what I said.

 

1.  Changing the Ceiling Height moves the Roof up or Down so that the plate heights are consistent.

2.  I stand by this

3.  I inadvertently typed "Ceiling Structure" instead of "Ceiling Finish"

 

Now please don't be an a**.  All you needed to do was ask if I really meant to say "Finish" instead of "Structure"

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Larry,

Is this what you're looking for?

I deleted your foundation, established new floor defaults, and rebuilt the foundation.  I did have to modify several foundation walls.

 

 

post-62-0-05475200-1438038685_thumb.jpg

post-62-0-16082100-1438038719_thumb.jpg

FLOOR HEIGHTS BE 1.plan

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