Manual Dimensions vs Automatic Dimensions - can't turn off Automatic Dimensions

[LinLMI]

X13

 

I can't turn off the Automatic Exterior Dimensions.  The only way to get rid of them is to turn off the Manual Dimensions (the Manual Dimensions will turn off both).   The toggle in the layer settings for Automatic Dimensions does nothing and far as I can tell. 

 

I want to keep the Manual Dimensions I have,  but don't want to see the Automatic Exterior Dimensions.   I can manually delete all of them, but that is frustrating to have to do repeatedly. 

 

Am I missing something?

 

This is new with the x13 Update.  I didn't have an issue in x12.  

 

Thank you in advance.

[Kbird1]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:41 AM, LinLMI said:

Am I missing something?

 

 

Turn off Auto Refresh in your Template Plan ( for permanent fix) or any Plan and they won't generate automatically as you build the Home.

 

 

 

[LinLMI]

Eric -- thank you for the reminder to update my signature.  Your tip worked to delete the Automatic Dimensions. 

 

Kbird1 -- thank you for the permanent solution (and screen shot).  I haven't tried that, yet, but will if the dimensions keep popping up.

[Kbird1]

3 hours ago, LinLMI said:

Eric -- thank you for the reminder to update my signature.  Your tip worked to delete the Automatic Dimensions. 

 

Kbird1 -- thank you for the permanent solution (and screen shot).  I haven't tried that, yet, but will if the dimensions keep popping up.

 

Chief has in on by Default in the Standard Plan Template ( Residental Template ) , so it will happen each time you start a New Plan if using Chief's Template.

 

Mick.

[kylejmarsh]

From what I can tell - and just ran into this issue - is that the 'Automatic Dimensions' are now being created on the 'Manual Dimensions' layer, instead of their own layer. Has anyone else noticed this? Used to be they were on their own unique layer - not anymore. And I can't figure out where to change the layer they're generated on, because the 'dimensions defaults' were changed/expanded (which I'm glad about btw) but I can't find this option anymore. Anybody else figure it out?

[Kbird1]

28 minutes ago, kylejmarsh said:

From what I can tell - and just ran into this issue - is that the 'Automatic Dimensions' are now being created on the 'Manual Dimensions' layer, instead of their own layer. Has anyone else noticed this? Used to be they were on their own unique layer - not anymore. And I can't figure out where to change the layer they're generated on, because the 'dimensions defaults' were changed/expanded (which I'm glad about btw) but I can't find this option anymore. Anybody else figure it out?

 

there are a lot of changes with Dimensions in X13 and  Plans brought forward are demonstrating Issues due to all the new Defaults it seems...

 

I am beginning to think i will need to rebuilt not only my Templates but my Clients also.

 

[kylejmarsh]

1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Thanks for sending that - checked it out and it seems like that only allows me to set the layer for all dimensions, manual + automatic, and not to break them apart separate like before. Am I doing it wrong or is that what you found too?

[Kbird1]

49 minutes ago, kylejmarsh said:

 

Thanks for sending that - checked it out and it seems like that only allows me to set the layer for all dimensions, manual + automatic, and not to break them apart separate like before. Am I doing it wrong or is that what you found too?

 

It seems , like before the Auto Tools create Auto Dimensions , but there is no longer a dedicated Automatic Dimension Layer,  each Dimension Default's layer is now considered Auto if the Auto tool is used but in the DBX you can change a string to Manual if needed ( can group select as seen below ) , and you can still move a Dimension(s) to the Dimension -Manual layer if you want to.......but I need to Play/Draw/Dig deeper into X13 to be honest.

 

  

 

 

 

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, kylejmarsh said:

Am I doing it wrong or is that what you found too?

 

That is what I found

2 hours ago, kylejmarsh said:

From what I can tell - and just ran into this issue - is that the 'Automatic Dimensions' are now being created on the 'Manual Dimensions' layer, instead of their own layer

Not quite, they are both being created on the configured, single layer in the active default set.  I do not use the Dimensions, Automatic. I configure mine all to be specific. i.e. My SPVs have a default set configured to their own dimension layer. i.e. Roof SPV has a 3/16" Roof default set which has a 3/16" dimension set configured to "Dimensions Roof" layer

 

So I was pleasantly surprised to see the auto dimensions show up on the layer for which I am viewing my SPV

 

But from what I can tell, the manual dimensions also get created on the default set's layer. But how the manual dimensions get assigned a layer looks like the same behaviour as in X12. For me to get a manual dimension on "Dimensions, manual" in X12, I would have to change the defaults to the CA default set (3/16" Default set), as it has it on layer "Dimensions, Manual". In X12 to get the automatic dims on a layer set other than automatic, I'd have to go into the defaults and constantly change them for every view. PITA

 

The change in behaviour is that the auto dims are now on the same active default layer as the manual dims

 

I suppose now to get them on different layers, you would have to select a different default set prior to dong manual dimensions. or select a different set prior to doing automatic dimensions.... from what I can tell..(or draw them and then select them and change the layer)

 

Personally I prefer the way it is now. For me if I want things on the Dimensions, Manual, I would have to switch to 3/16" Default set...but that is a rare day. BUt I can certainly see the use case, as I have had thought before how can I create dimensions on this SPV just for me to check dimensions, such as space between things, but I want to turn off in the final plans, as clients often ask "what is the distance there". Today I draw them and then delete them later, not ideal, in case I have to check later. I should probably be using the 3/16" default and then turn the "dimensions, Manual" layer on and off...or just create my own named temporary dim set

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

each Dimension Default's layer is now considered Auto if the Auto tool is used but in the DBX you can change a string to Manual if needed ( can group select as seen below )

 

The setting your changing in the screenshots actually has nothing to do with the layer.  That setting is specifically to specify which locate settings are to be used for that string if you should decide to use the Add Segments edit handle.  It only appears as if its affecting the default layer because you're modifying the string.  You could make any change though and get the same effect. In fact, you can even simply open the dialog and click okay to change the strings default layer.  This behavior was actually the same in prior versions as well.  Any modification to an Automatic Dimension string changes it to a manual dimension string and therefore changes the default layer. 

 

As far as the default layer for Automatic Dimensions in X13 still being "Dimensions, Automatic", I'm betting that is simply a legacy plan behavior to help ensure things carry over properly.  It is a little odd though.  Checking Default in X13 for an Automatic Dimension string will move it to the "Dimensions, Automatic" Layer, but, doing so will also modify the string, so as soon as you click okay, the default layer changes to "Dimensions, Manual".  I have no problem with any of the new behaviors and appreciate the changes.  The default layer thing is a little funky though.

[kylejmarsh]

This is going to screw up my workflow a bit, but that's fine. I have been using Automatic dimensions only for locating exterior corners - these are carried over into a number of different drawings like a floor framing plan, roof plan, etc. for plans which only need the overall length of things - then I use the 'manual' for locating interior wall strings and window/opening centerlines, and other stuff that doesn't need to go on the other plans. I also have an 'overall' one which is just the overall lengths or the length of the main building sections.

 

You can see them here on the right - I use these off-sheet guides to help me line things up. I set all four sides up with strings, then it helps me line everything up. The different colors only show up on my @modeling layer and not on my main @plan display layers that show up on my drawings.

 

[kylejmarsh]

Oh another thing - is there a way to make the Automatic Dimensions all be on a single dimension string, instead of all having different offsets? Honestly I end up deleting most of the automatic dimensions so I can get a couple of strings going - guess I really don't use them much after all. Though if I had the ability to set up layer as well as 'keep as single string' I may have a use for them actually

[Kbird1]

5 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

The setting your changing in the screenshots actually has nothing to do with the layer. 

 

You jumped to a conclusion,  I never said it had anything to do with the Layer, that was in

the second part of the comment you conveniently chopped off your quote.

 

7 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

and you can still move a Dimension(s) to the Dimensions - Manual layer if you want to

 

 

5 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Any modification to an Automatic Dimension string changes it to a  manual dimension string (yes as before)  and therefore changes the default layer.  ( not anymore that I'm seeing )

 

This is NOT the behavior I am seeing, as Jason stated above, they both now reside on the specified Default Layer and remain there eg the new Plan Dimensions Default.

 

7 hours ago, jasonn1234 said:

The change in behaviour is that the auto dims are now on the same active default layer as the manual dims

 

 

Looking at the current ALDO there isn't even a Dimensions, Automatic Layer, anymore and unless you move a Dim. deliberately to the Dimensions, Manual Layer, it seems to go unused as well. At least that is what I see happening in a Clean X13 Test Plan (from the Residential Template) I was testing today, and may well be a good thing for SPV's especially and perhaps why it was done.

 

I am now thinking with the new Dimensioning Defaults in X13, l and my Clients Templates will need to be rebuilt off the latest x13 Residential Template , as it seems Plans brought forward have various issues as demonstrated last week in the Cabinet Elevation Issue thread.

 

There is a new System Layer Called Dimensions, Overall which maybe what Kyle is now wanting but I have not tested enough to confirm that Usage.

 

[glennw]

1 hour ago, kylejmarsh said:

Oh another thing - is there a way to make the Automatic Dimensions all be on a single dimension string, instead of all having different offsets? Honestly I end up deleting most of the automatic dimensions so I can get a couple of strings going - guess I really don't use them much after all. Though if I had the ability to set up layer as well as 'keep as single string' I may have a use for them actually

Kyle,

Are you saying you want this:

 

And not this:

 

If so, that is controlled by the Reach setting

[Alaskan_Son]

47 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

You jumped to a conclusion,  I never said it had anything to do with the Layer, that was in

the second part of the comment you conveniently chopped off your quote.

Didn’t mean to jump to any conclusions.  I chopped off the last part of the quote because it was irrelevant to my comment.  And if you weren’t talking about the layer behaviors with then first part of your statement, the what were you talking about?  Nobody ever said anything about Locate settings.  I’ve read it through about 10 times and I can’t for the life of me figure out what you were getting at now if it had nothing to do with the layer.  
 

Anyway, even if you weren’t talking about the layer, my comment still stands.  That setting is nothing more than a toggle for the locate settings.  Not sure what that had to do with anything being discussed.  It just seemed to be confusing matters.  

[SHCanada2]

2 hours ago, kylejmarsh said:

This is going to screw up my workflow a bit, but that's fine. I have been using Automatic dimensions only for locating exterior corners - these are carried over into a number of different drawings like a floor framing plan, roof plan, etc. for plans which only need the overall length of things - then I use the 'manual' for locating interior wall strings and window/opening centerlines, and other stuff that doesn't need to go on the other plans. I also have an 'overall' one which is just the overall lengths or the length of the main building sections.

I think your best bet might be to set up 2 other dimension sets with different layers and add "Active dimensions Defaults control" to your toolbar. You can then select prior to drawing dimensions. The SPV will consider this a change to the SPV, so you just have to be careful not to save

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

There is a new System Layer Called Dimensions, Overall which maybe what Kyle is now wanting but I have not tested enough to confirm that Usage.

 

That layer appears to be the System layer that replaced the Dimensions, Automatic layer.  It’s the top level system default layer (as opposed to the Saved Default layer) for Auto Story Pole Dimensions and the top level system default layer for automatic dimensions.  As I pointed out in my post above though, that default is extremely temporary though and I’m guessing it was only left in there for legacy plans.  
 

Bottom line is that there are a couple top level default layers.  For all intents and purposes though, they should hardly ever come into play.  We can now control BOTH manual and automatic dimension strings at the Saved Default level which was a huge improvement.  If you prefer to place manual and automatic dimensions on different layers, you still can, but I think for 95% of situations it’s still faster to do so using the new capabilities.  Either change your active dimension default or just move to a different layer later.  Like I said, you can even do so by simply opening the Auto Dimension string and checking Default.  

[SHCanada2]

15 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Like I said, you can even do so by simply opening the Auto Dimension string and clicking Okay.  

that is interesting, it is a bit of a one shot. If I do an auto exterior, then open up the dimensions to the layer tab  and click "default" (it is originally unchecked), it will move the layer to Dimensions, overall". but if you just click OK and then open it back up, the default is now checked and it is using the layer of the active defaults. 

 

I do not actually see anywhere to configure it to use "Dimensions, overall" as a default, where before in X12 you could configure the layer for Automatic dimensions. Did I miss it?

 

or maybe that is why you are suggesting not to use it?

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, jasonn1234 said:

I do not actually see anywhere to configure it to use "Dimensions, overall" as a default, where before in X12 you could configure the layer for Automatic dimensions. Did I miss it?

 

You are correct.  That capability is gone.  It was replaced by some much more robust capabilities though IMO.

 

And you can't configure “Dimensions, Overall” specifically for Automatic Dimensions.  It is the system default so that if you open an automatic dimension and place a check in the Default checkbox, it will be moved to the "Dimensions, Overall" layer.  Again though, clicking Okay will also simultaneously modify the string which will change its system default layer to "Dimensions, Manual" (legacy plans) or "Dimensions, Plan" (X13 templates). 

 

And sorry if my statements were confusing.  I wasn't really suggesting using the Default checkbox or using the "clicking Okay" method.  Just meant to describe how it works. 

 

By the way, I did make a mistake in my last post.  I should have said....

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

you can even do so by simply opening the Auto Dimension string and clicking Okay checking Default.

 

I went back and corrected it.  Hope that helps clarify things. 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

And if you weren’t talking about the layer behaviors with then first part of your statement, the what were you talking about?  Nobody ever said anything about Locate settings.

 

Just that it's a quick way now to change it's inherited Characteristics including the Layer, without changing anything, if for example you want to save only a few of them and then use Delete Objects > Automatic Dimensions to remove the rest.

 

And you are right nobody ever said anything about Locate Settings.....

 

Mick.

[Alaskan_Son]

22 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Just that it's a quick way now to change it's inherited Characteristics including the Layer, without changing anything, if for example you want to save only a few of them and then use Delete Objects > Automatic Dimensions to remove the rest.

Again, changing that setting isn’t what’s doing it.  Simply opening the dialog and making any change whatsoever will do the same thing...even just clicking Okay will do it. 

[Chrisb222]

16 hours ago, jasonn1234 said:

or just create my own named temporary dim set

 

That's what I did. Easy to flip back and forth if you add the Active Dimension Defaults Control drop-down on your toolbar.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

That's what I did. Easy to flip back and forth if you add the Active Dimension Defaults Control drop-down on your toolbar.

 

I have also done this , for example with different Cabinet Dims types as shown in the Video below ( not all Dims Videos are X13 refreshed yet but this one is)

and think I will likely add a few more for specific situations too.

 

Mick.

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/1595/dimensioning-cabinet-face-items-and-openings.html?playlist=92

[kylejmarsh]

Just revisiting this again - I wish that each of the different automatic dimension types could be on a different layer, because depending on what you're showing you want different dimensions to show up. For example, I would like my outside corners and perhaps my overall dimension on the roof plan, but I don't need my window centerlines on there. For site plan, I would want just my overall dimensions perhaps. Here they are - I keep overall, outside corners, and centerline dimensions on different layers and show them in different colors so I can keep track of them. It would be great if we could tie the auto-dimensions to these different layers

[robdyck]

18 minutes ago, kylejmarsh said:

It would be great if we could tie the auto-dimensions to these different layers

You can...just set up different defaults. My roof dimensions operate much like yours, however they are separate and on their own layer automatically. The only difference is they are similar but separate from the dimension used in floor plan view. 

I don't bother having them set to Auto-Refresh, because I just click the auto-dimension tool (because they still need some editing and roof plan clean up is one of the last things I do).