stevenyhof

Lap and Stud from corner to opening discrepancy

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I'm new so just learning, but when I place a door or window in a wall and want it 3" (lap and stud) away from the corner of another wall, I can't seem to get it to 3" - it's always a little off.

I drew a center circle from the corner with intersect snap so I know where the 3" intersection crosses. And when I move the door next to the wall and then slide it away, and use the TAB key to enter 3" - it still is not 3" - does not line up with my circle - see image.

 

I cannot get the door to center in the opening either - If I turn object snaps off, I can eyeball it to center. I can see the frame of the door is 3/4", so the gap I am seeing is the 1/4" that remains that shows that the 3" radius circle is not connecting - see image. Maybe I should make the door frame 1" so it fills the gap (space between the frame and the stud) that is there to allow some movement in real life. But for CAD, I want to make sure my objects are placed precisely, otherwise things go down hill from there and allow discrepancies.

 

Many times I place walls by this 3" (Lap and Stud), then a door/opening and then another 3" and then a wall - like for a bedroom closet. When I dimension the plan, the framers do what they should and the door fits as expected.

 

Same with the window. When I slide a window against a corner wall, it snaps about 1/2" from the corner wall, but I don't know for sure because it is hard to use the tape measure and see what it is snapping too. Then I drag it away from the corner and TAB and enter 2.5"  - but still it does not line up with the 3" radius circle - See image.

 

I am new and still working through the tutorial so maybe I am jumping on this too early. 

Thank you

door edge.jpg

eyeball opening between walls.jpg

window edge.jpg

window edge snap.jpg

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1 minute ago, stevenyhof said:

I cannot get the door to center in the opening either

 

There is no opening. Center it on the room to the left.

 

5 minutes ago, stevenyhof said:

want it 3"

 

Not sure exactly what you want, but ...

 

ct1.thumb.png.8029a57144566816d869925b5517e046.png

 

 

Consider using Temporary Dimensions.

 

A couple of videos intended for a Home Designer user, but probably applicable here too.

 

https://youtu.be/Po5mVf5QnO0

 

 

https://youtu.be/Wu1yEhPG6_g

 

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Doors are opening-sized, windows not.

 

 

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For the record, when I changed the frame width to 1" from 3/4", it fits perfectly. The dimension of 2'10 (rough opening) also lines up perfectly with the outside of the jamb (frame) and not just in space like the previous pics above - see door image with 2'10 dimension and note that the extension lines go into the gray space and not to any intersection. I guess that would be fine knowing that the dimension is telling us that that is the rough opening between the laps (studs) - and the overall width of the door plus the frame is 2'9.5" leaving the 1/4" gap per side for shimming level. I'm still working on centering the door without eyeballing it. I was hoping the door would snap to the center of the wall. I will keep studying...

door with 1 inch frame.jpg

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The auto behavior is most likely because you have the OOB setting to adjust for casing and the default casing for the door is not allowing it to go to the corner as it wouldn't IRL without ripping the casing to fit.  Either change your casing size or turn off the adjust for trim setting.

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Thank you Ryan. I see I need to get into the material (help/videos/etc.) and read. My bad! Just playing around - like a new toy you know! :) 

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30 minutes ago, stevenyhof said:

Thank you Ryan. I see I need to get into the material (help/videos/etc.) and read. My bad! Just playing around - like a new toy you know! :) 

I totally understand.  It is addictive! 

 

BTW the F1 Key becomes an amazing friend while learning the program.

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Just to clarify some things, in Chief, the door size does not include the thickness of the jamb so you will want to adjust your rough opening to account for this. Window frames are the opposite and are included in the size of the window.

 

In the first picture below, I have a 2' 8" door with a 3/4" jamb thickness and 1" rough opening per side.  This gives me a 1/4" gap on each side for the actual rough opening.  I have built and displayed the wall framing so that this is more clear.  This door fits easily when the walls are 3' 2" apart giving me enough room for my studs and casing.  Please note how I drew my dimensions going to the framing and not to the drywall.

 

If you want only 3" of clearance on the inside, you will either need to adjust the casing or turn on "Ignore Casing for Opening Resize" in your General Plan Defaults.  Of course this will affect how you would need to frame it.  In the second picture, note how I made the interior casing smaller so that this door would fit into a 3' 2" space.  Please keep in mind that it's not just the casing width that affects this since the reveal also matters.  In the picture, my casing is 2 1/4" wide with a 1/4" reveal which allows it to bump up against the 1/2" drywall to give me the 3" spacing shown in the dimension.

 

I suspect that the original problem you were having had to do with your casing bumping against the drywall preventing you from positioning it where you wanted it. 

 

door size 1.png

door size 2.png

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1 hour ago, Dermot said:

Just to clarify some things, in Chief, the door size does not include the thickness of the jamb so you will want to adjust your rough opening to account for this. Window frames are the opposite and are included in the size of the window.

 

In the first picture below, I have a 2' 8" door with a 3/4" jamb thickness and 1" rough opening per side.  This gives me a 1/4" gap on each side for the actual rough opening.  I have built and displayed the wall framing so that this is more clear.  This door fits easily when the walls are 3' 2" apart giving me enough room for my studs and casing.  Please note how I drew my dimensions going to the framing and not to the drywall.

 

If you want only 3" of clearance on the inside, you will either need to adjust the casing or turn on "Ignore Casing for Opening Resize" in your General Plan Defaults.  Of course this will affect how you would need to frame it.  In the second picture, note how I made the interior casing smaller so that this door would fit into a 3' 2" space.  Please keep in mind that it's not just the casing width that affects this since the reveal also matters.  In the picture, my casing is 2 1/4" wide with a 1/4" reveal which allows it to bump up against the 1/2" drywall to give me the 3" spacing shown in the dimension.

 

I suspect that the original problem you were having had to do with your casing bumping against the drywall preventing you from positioning it where you wanted it. 

 

door size 1.png

door size 2.png

This is very helpful and shows and explains what I was looking for. My plans are typically drawn for the framers so I do not get into the detail CA does. But I like it and want to expand what I include in my plans. I will mess with the casing and see how it behaves. Thank you!

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11 hours ago, stevenyhof said:

For the record, when I changed the frame width to 1" from 3/4", it fits perfectly. The dimension of 2'10 (rough opening) also lines up perfectly with the outside of the jamb (frame) and not just in space like the previous pics above - see door image with 2'10 dimension and note that the extension lines go into the gray space and not to any intersection. I guess that would be fine knowing that the dimension is telling us that that is the rough opening between the laps (studs) - and the overall width of the door plus the frame is 2'9.5" leaving the 1/4" gap per side for shimming level. I'm still working on centering the door without eyeballing it. I was hoping the door would snap to the center of the wall. I will keep studying...

door with 1 inch frame.jpg

Just center it in the hallway to the left. I use center dimensions and inherently know the center dimension for a door from an adjacent wall, so for a 32" door it'll be 20" away from an adjacent wall to provide the 3" of framing. Temporary dimensions almost always provide the input option required, one one side of the door or the other, depending on which 'side' of the door you click on.

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Just center it in the hallway to the left

Yes, I am learning the center command - thank you

 

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1 hour ago, stevenyhof said:

Yes, I am learning the center command - thank you

Yep, that's another good one to have on an easy hot-key arrangement.
Dermot's suggestion to turn on 'ignore casing' is another good one (in my opinion)... unless you are specifically going to be specifying casing material and care whether it's clipped.

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I am not planning on using the casing for anything other than 3D views (no material take off). In ADT I do not show casing in plan or model view. However, I kind of like it in CA so thinking I will show it. I have some other questions related to casing and plan vs model vs elevation views, but I need to keep studying first and if I still have questions I will start a new topic if another does not exist.

 

I have enjoyed the communication here in the forums and everyone's willingness to offer ideas and insight! And even some personal fun! I have missed that for many years because I stopped upgrading my ADT and it fell off the radar. So thank you!!

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I use the casing size along with "Ignore Casing For Opening Resize" unchecked for positioning doors. 3-1/4" casing plus 3/4" jamb allows me to automatically bump the door to the corner and get the typical 4" from corner to door (3" for framing, 1" for rough opening) needed for most casing.

 

A 2/8 door drops right into the center of a 3'4" hallway using this method, no need to center.

 

Exception is when using wider casing on large homes and I need to allow for a third framing member each side. Then the casing is 4-3/4" + 3/4" jamb = 5-1/2 total offset from corner.

 

I typically don't show casing or jambs on plans, 3D view is incorrect using this method.

 

1107287260_ScreenShot2020-07-07at11_35_30AM.thumb.png.11bba3baeb9eb3d2b1e17f9ab9c4b620.png

 

1731546401_ScreenShot2020-07-07at11_36_34AM.thumb.png.f2d908c553903e8d63b473a68b9c428b.png

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I use the casing size along with "Ignore Casing For Opening Resize" unchecked for positioning doors. 3-1/4" casing plus 3/4" jamb allows me to automatically bump the door to the corner and get the typical 4" from corner to door (3" for framing, 1" for rough opening) needed for most casing.

 

A 2/8 door drops right into the center of a 3'4" hallway using this method, no need to center.

 

This looks exactly how my plans look in ADT except I show the frame only - so a 2468 dimensions to 2'6" opening and shows 3" for studs! - Thank you for the info and images!

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2 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Yep, that's another good one to have on an easy hot-key arrangement.
Dermot's suggestion to turn on 'ignore casing' is another good one (in my opinion)... unless you are specifically going to be specifying casing material and care whether it's clipped.

Along the topic of considering door casing one should also consider if architraves will be used. No decent builder wants casing and architraves ripped into corners. And higher end homes often have casings wider than 3". So for such projects I allow hallway widths to be 4.5" more than the typical door size which varies from builder to builder. Some like 30" doors, some like 32" doors. When architraves (lintels in Chief) will be used, I allow 6". In either scenario, I always allow framer-friendly dimensions so that intersections of walls are easily laid out and framed using 2x lumber which results in happier framers, and straighter, more precise intersections, and then happier drywallers and finishers.

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25 minutes ago, robdyck said:

Along the topic of considering door casing one should also consider if architraves will be used. No decent builder wants casing and architraves ripped into corners. And higher end homes often have casings wider than 3". So for such projects I allow hallway widths to be 4.5" more than the typical door size which varies from builder to builder. Some like 30" doors, some like 32" doors. When architraves (lintels in Chief) will be used, I allow 6". In either scenario, I always allow framer-friendly dimensions so that intersections of walls are easily laid out and framed using 2x lumber which results in happier framers, and straighter, more precise intersections, and then happier drywallers and finishers.

All good points Robert.  Architraves... ha!...nice!  I haven't used that term since architecture school!   I thought that was just part of an entablature?  Man, you're going to get me digging out my old school books.
Sounds like you're saying ... form and function follows framer?:P

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I agree when the homes are higher end. I too allow for 4.5". But most smaller homes cannot afford to lose the space in other room for a wider hallway. I have built, framed and trimmed many homes, and 3.5" trim fits perfectly against the wall with a 1/8"/1/4" reveal on the door jamb - if built square mind you. ;) Most homes, large and small, around here are being painted, so some caulk and you're good to go. (Unless you use the words of my father, "a 1/4" paint covers a lot of mistakes".) I also use 32" (2868) wide doors as that is code for bedrooms here in Michigan, so I make my hallways 40" wide rough in. 

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6 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

Architraves... ha!...nice!  I haven't used that term since architecture school! 

Ha! I'm not just trying to toss in some terminology...I'm just using the product description of the commonly used moldings in my region, so its habit, that's all. 

https://metrie.com/search/#post-type=products&profile-types=architrave&materials=mdf&branch=na

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11 minutes ago, robdyck said:

.I'm just using the product description of the commonly used moldings in my region

Perfect for your clients Aristotle and Socrates!
It does sound more official... who wants lintel when they can have architrave!  Sold
 

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A lot of builders prefer the plans to show where doors go tight to a corner, and their framing subs are trained to know how to deal with it.

 

The builder gives either a sample or cut sheet of the casing to be used, and the framer builds the R.O. so things work out with the casing just barely missing the sheetrock, so no casing rips are done by the finish crew.

 

In those cases of tight-to-corner doors, and a house typically has a half dozen or more, a callout goes on the plans to indicate the detail.

 

Chief helps us out by building TIGHT into the code, so based on your casing size, doors (and windows) run tight to corners get their openings done correctly.

 

So, when doing setup, specify all your R.O. margins, and your casing sizes.

 

But use the TIGHT callouts when trim specs are not known at construction docs time, which for custom or "semi custom" work, is often the case.

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