Michael_Gia Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 What do you mean by a framer dimensioning? Who's drawing the plans? Also, what about windows and doors? The center never changes. What is the edge of a window? Is it the window box? The window opening, including or excluding the air gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Michael_Gia said: Two big reasons why most plans show the centre is that the centre won’t change even if the wall thickness might suddenly change. Also for walls to line up with support beams and columns, that definitely can vary at any moment, again the Center measurements will not change. Things always line up properly. Majorly disagree with you on this Michael. I have a 2x4 wall which needed for some reason to change to a 2x6 wall, 99X out of 100 I do NOT want the center of that wall to be the center of the previous 2x4 wall... I want it to go one way or the other the full difference in width. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said: Also, what about windows and doors? The center never changes. Center of windows/doors is a totally different thing than center of walls. No issue at all with dimensions to center of windows/doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Michael_Gia said: Your carpenter is well versed in splitting dimensions of 2x4’s, 2 x6’s etc. It should be second nature to them. The same carpenters you said couldn't build a roof properly ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, DzinEye said: The same carpenters you said couldn't build a roof properly ??? Ha ha, good one. Well maybe it is a regional thing. You’re obviously a master of your trade and have hands on experience from drawing desk to site. Maybe it’s because we often deal with more than one language up here it’s important to isolate and simplify drawings to avoid multiple interpretations. I don’t know. Carpenters up here want to see center lines as well. It’s not like we’ve imposed it on anyone. Maybe it’s a French thing. They are damn fast carpenters, I can tell you that. Rough around the edges but very efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy1 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 19 hours ago, SNestor said: You have to use the end-to-end dimension tool...and then it will dimension to the center of an interior wall That is correct. Manual dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 All the debate about why one might dimension to centers aside...it seems many people need to read the Chief manual to understand what the INTERIOR DIMENSION tool is and what it's for and when / why to use it. Eureka moments will be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, robdyck said: All the debate about why one might dimension to centers aside...it seems many people need to read the Chief manual There's a Chief manual?!?!.... I thought it only came in Automatic? Great GIF !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 minute ago, DzinEye said: There's a Chief manual?!?!.... I thought it only came in Automatic? Great GIF !!! Thx. It made me chuckle softly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I’m able to drag any type of dimension string to snap to the center of an interior wall, as long as I zoom quite close onto that wall. Also there can not be a door anywhere in the vicinity or it won’t snap. Anyone else have this experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Builder first, drafter second, I’ll put my vote in the kitty for dimensioning to sides. When I’m designing, not only could I care less about the dimension to center of window but also my client could care less. My client wants to know if their China cabinet can fit on the wall before it interferes with the window. I want to know if I’m giving a standard wall length in the bedroom to fit dressers. I want to know if I’ve got enough room to fit electrical next to a double king. I dimension to both sides of the window, if it says 36” in the dimension string where the window lives and the window label says 3030 I’m pretty sure an apprentice level framer could figure that out. Center of wall...on a furred bathroom wall for a pocket door and electrical on the bath side and an abutting foot of bathtub...why does anyone want to do that math or leave that to their framer? Sure you could adjust your standard for this but not for me, I like the same standard all through the draft set. I also know plenty of framers that run a higher risk of cutting a beam short to an interior bearing wall. Finally I would say this, I run my own beam calcs, why in the hell would I care about centerline when I am calling out to out or clear span, or cantilever. Makes ZERO sense to me. Weyerhaeuser must have a Canadian version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjmdes Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 When I took my first drafting class in 8th grade (1977?) it was made very clear to dimension to the face of the framing member, because that is where the framer is going to draw his line. Putting a line down on the slab at the center of the wall hides your target line. This also requires framers to do unnecessary math. This has been reinforced by framers I have worked with for almost 40 years. The only thing worse than dimensioning to centerlines of walls is dimensioning to finishes and I have seen a lot of drawings from others who do this, mainly on commercial jobs. There is an exception to this such as on my ADA detail sheets where a minimum clear dimension must be maintained. In those cases, I will draw a dimension and add "CLEAR". I never did understand the concept of putting dimensions lines to the face of the tile, but I have seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I don’t get the logic of you crazy Americans. Question: Size of beams and posts etc. can change depending on availability, suppliers or even a wrong order. That is you might order a 4” post and receive a 6” post. The carpenter can use either, so he grabs the 6” post and now he has to do the math of where to place that. If you dimension to the center in your plans then there’s nothing to worry about. I just gave a simple example but what if there are several dozen changes in the dimensions of support walls, 2x4 to 2x6 or floor and ceiling beam thickness or posts, throughout a plan. You will have a structural nightmare on your hands. Accommodate the structure and not the carpenter is what I say. Most of you guys sound like framers who learned how to use Chief. It’s pretty scary, what I’m hearing. I am the odd man out though. But then again you guys still haven’t figured out the metric system, so there’s that too. Ok, I’ll sit back and take my lumps now. Go easy on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, robdyck said: Thx. It made me chuckle softly. That's a dad joke for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said: Size of beams and posts etc. can change depending on availability, suppliers or even a wrong order. That is you might order a 4” post and receive a 6” post. The carpenter can use either, so he grabs the 6” post and now he has to do the math of where to place that. Admit you're just bored today and looking to get a rise out of someone. You're making circular arguments... up above somewhere you said a carpenter can easily do the math to split dimensions, now you're saying they're going to be confused centering an upsized post dimensioned to the edge. Come on now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Speaking on the issue of placing dimensions to centers vs. edges... To me, it really depends on the plan, how detailed it is, how much information is on it, and on the specific purpose of the drawing. In addition, it depends on the reason I placed that window where I did. Unless the edge of a window is the controlling factor for some reason though, I don't see how anyone could argue the inherent benefits of dimensioning to centers. It results in a cleaner plan with less jumble, and it allows for rough openings and even window sizes to be changed as necessary without needing to change the dimensions at all. . Again though, it depends on the plan. If I need an edge located at a specific location, then that obviously changes things. I think its tough to argue that measuring to center is cleaner and leaves less room for doubt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: Speaking on the issue of placing dimensions to centers vs. edges... The main debate was really over dimensioning to wall centers vs. sides, windows were thrown in later but you make perfectly valid points for window dimensioning. I think Rene's the only one who put up any kind of argument for side dimensioning of windows in this thread, and I think he made a valid argument at that... which could add 'depends on the client' to your 'depends on the plan' point to fit Rene's argument for fitting specific furniture on adjacent walls. In another thread in the top of the heap right now by Robdyck has a similar topic where I pointed out that I usually dimension to a windows centers when they're centered on a room, or I just note that fact, but I dimension to their side closest to a wall where I want the window a set distance from that wall... ensuring that even if the window changes size, I want it that distance from the wall. Your points above support that. Other benefits of one-side only dimensioning are the same as center dim., the plan remains less cluttered, and I'm not calling out what could be construed as a framing opening which should in my opinion only be taken from one place, either the window schedule on the plan or the one provided by the window supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, DzinEye said: he main debate was really over dimensioning to wall centers vs. sides From the perspectives of both a framer for many years and as a builder and designer, I say edges for walls hands down. Its not even close. Walls very rarely if ever are placed where they're at based on the center dimension so why would you dimension them like that? The vast majority of the time, its a specific edge or opening dimension that's so important. If someone decides to increase a wall to a 2x6 or decrease to a 2x4, I'd say it's probably only 1 time our of 20 that the wall should be adjusted about the center. Edges and openings are really what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL88 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 From pull down menu. Click Edit. Click Edit Defaults. Follow snips attached. You can set all your locate objects settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey_martin Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Wall edges, beam/posts centerlines, windows & doors to centerline. No one will convince me otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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