Understanding Annosets, Defaults & Layersets

[HumbleChief]

I've invested a lot of time learning to deal with Anno/Layout sets and would be loath to re-learn a new method, however after saying that each time the Devs have changed a crucial bit of programming I've found it is usually for the better.

[HumbleChief]

Joe,

 

I personally appreciate the effort you put into posts such as these but it may assume that others use Layer/Anno Sets in a similar way. I use them in a way that I'm sure is unique to me and my work flow so that even makes it hard to relate to your suggestions. Not that the function can't be improved, and maybe in exactly the way you suggest, but maybe there are so many different ways to use them that specific suggestions that fit s specific work flow may not be the most useful.

[Joe_Carrick]

Larry,

 

If you could give a simple explanation of how you use them - I could be more specific in addressing your concerns.  Without knowing how your use is unique, I can't agree or disagree with you. 

[lbuttery]

for the non-power users of Anno-sets

or those (like me) who haven't used them yet

 

the SSA videos #1305 and #1306 are informative as to how CA thought they would be used

my understanding is that CA sees anno-sets as "grouped defaults"

which is quicker than going to the defaults dbx and changing any of the 6 defaults that can be

controlled by anno-sets

 

concerning the "king" question

it seems CA intended for both options

 

1. choose a layerset, then choose an anno-set that has "use active layerset"

    and layersets are "king"

    just switch among the various layersets and the anno-set remains the same

    with the same "grouped defaults" 

     useful when using the same scale for various layersets

 

2. choose an anno-set such as electrical or framing or site plan

     with a specific layerset specified with the "grouped defaults"

     and anno-set is "king"

     switch to another anno-set like this and the layerset is changed

 

this is what CA implemented in X3

since then the power-users like Joe and Scott have devised

vast new combinations of usage

 

I think my needs would lean towards CA's original intent for anno-sets

 

more power to those who have "greater" needs

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

Larry,

 

If you could give a simple explanation of how you use them - I could be more specific in addressing your concerns.  Without knowing how your use is unique, I can't agree or disagree with you. 

 

I have Anno Sets set up for each 'phase' or discipline of construction. As Built Anno Set, Proposed Anno Set ( I do a lot of remodels) Foundation Set, Framing Ceiling, Framing Floor, Framing Roof, Details Set, Plot Plan, Electrical Set, Steel Columns etc. as needed. I have about 20 Anno Sets and use 6 or 7 on every plan.

 

I just switch between Anno Sets for each discipline, which of course changes to the Layer set that is associated with the Anno Set. It's become automatic and haven't really found a need to change much.

 

The only thing I'd like is to have Anno Sets set per floor because when I change to the foundation floor I'd like that to be Associated with my Foundation Anno Set then back to the first floor have that Associated with another Anno Set. That is probably a perfect example of the unique way I work as when I suggested that Anno Set be associated with floors not many agreed it would work for them.

 

Again, I haven't found a real need to change the way things work now so I may not be the best candidate to continue the discussion.

[lbuttery]

which of course changes to the Layer set that is associated with the Anno Set

 

Larry:

 

could some of those anno-sets be specified as "use active layerset" ?

 

then you could change the layerset as needed and be using the same anno-set' "grouped defaults"

 

just asking - trying to get a handle on the "simple way' to use anno-sets

 

have Anno Sets set per floor

 

If you have a layerset per floor and some of the anno-sets have "use active layeset"

then maybe that would work for you ?

 

Lew

[Doug_Park]

The original intent was to have a quick way of switching the setup of defaults for certain annoation operations (disiplines as Joe calls them). That is all. Switching from drawing a floor plan to laying out electrical is one such example that could in some cases have take dozens of clicks to input up the correct settings. So not only was it tedious, it was easy to make a mistake.

 

I regret adding the ability to change the layer set. That option is now theoretically not such a big deal now as the annotaiton set and layer set for a view are rememberd on a per view basis.

 

Unfortunately, it seems like annoation sets are now being viewed as a solution to problems that they were never intended to handle.

[ebdesign]

Lew,

Jump into Anno Sets w/ both feet & get 'em wet.

You're probably not gonna get your questions answered in any real detail until you make that effort.

Even w/ all the debate & discussion, one thing is a given:

Anno Sets are HUGE timesavers for those who need to create complete plan sets.

[lbuttery]

Jim:

 

I'm retired and don't do CD's anymore

 

my friend/partner is still doing some projects

mainly 3D elevations and roof fixes

 

he doesn't use anno-sets either

 

just trying to get a handle on them - in case the need arises

 

I see all the "confusion" and decided to go back to CA's original intent

 

which seems to be missing from all the discussion and debate on these posts

 

I'm sure new users are reading these posts and deciding anno-sets

are way too confusing and avoiding them like the plague

 

If my understanding is correct they can be used in CA's "simple mode"

without all the extra "hoopla"

 

while "power users" may need more I suspect the average user

can get along fine with the way CA intended them

 

so I'm trying to understand what suggestions are improvements

versus those that are complete "re-writes" of the original logic

 

Lew

[KenL-sdd]

Scott,

You are in fact missing something.  The Annoset is responsible for the Text size because it uses a Defaults.  IOW:

 

For 1"=10' you have one set of Defaults that control the sizes of Text, Dimensions, etc. 

For 1"=20' you have another set of Defauts that control the sizes of Text, Dimensions, etc.

For 1"=20' you have one set of Defaults that control the sizes of Text, Dimensions, etc.

For 1"=60' you have another set of Defauts that control the sizes of Text, Dimensions, etc.

 

For Architectural Plans I need 3 Annosets and 1 Layerset

For Structural Plans I need 3 Annosets and 1 Layerset

For Electrical Plans I need 3 Annosets and 1 Layerset

 

Annosets specify the Defaults that control the size of Annotations

Layersets specify what's displayed - and anything that you don't want to adhere to Defaults.

 

I use annosets all of the time. Learned from Scott, Use more like Joe.

Annosets are KING. They work perfectly the way I use them now. Same as Joe I believe.

[HumbleChief]

which of course changes to the Layer set that is associated with the Anno Set

 

Larry:

 

could some of those anno-sets be specified as "use active layerset" ?

 

then you could change the layerset as needed and be using the same anno-set' "grouped defaults"

 

just asking - trying to get a handle on the "simple way' to use anno-sets

 

have Anno Sets set per floor

 

If you have a layerset per floor and some of the anno-sets have "use active layeset"

then maybe that would work for you ?

 

Lew

 

Lew,

 

I'll answer your question with a big MAYBE. I don't understand the use of active Layer Set 'feature' and may spend some time learning them but it's hard to change when habits get so ingrained. I watched the videos you linked to and they were quite interesting. Didn't really know what CA intended for Anno Sets.

 

The way I use Anno Sets came about from the initial discussion when they were first introduced and I've honed my methods since then. The more I read the more I see that I may use them in ways they were not intended but ain't that grand?

 

I haven't seen a way to deal with Anoo Set (Active Laters or Not) on a per floor basis. Chief simply doesn't allow for changing Layer/Anno Sets per floor.

 

I'm not sure your exact status as far as working with CA but if you have aversion with Anno Sets and you want to learn them post a question or 2 and i'm you'll get a lot of help. Once understood they are essential IMO.

[KenL-sdd]

Annosets are the new powerhouse in Chief. You should use them the the MAX. I have taught others on how to use annosets.

I will try to post a video in the next week on How I use them.

Good Luck

[Joe_Carrick]

Active Layerset is very simply what happens when the Layerset specified for the Current Annoset has been changed by the user.  IOW, it's not the Default Layerset for that Annoset.

 

We have the ability to change things on the fly.  Annosets have made it easier to get everything with one click (actually 2 clicks) but the implementation has complicated things in other ways.  It can be simpler. 

[ebdesign]

"Use Active Layer Set" is found in the Anno Sets dbx & is the default setting for most of the OOB anno sets that come w/ Chief. When "Use Active Layer Set" is selected for a particular anno set & then that anno set is activated, the layer set that is current at that time will remain the same. IOW, layer sets & anno sets can be selected from their respective dbx's w no effect on the other.

[Joe_Carrick]

Unfortunately, it seems like annoation sets are now being viewed as a solution to problems that they were never intended to handle.

Doug,

 

If you make it work a certain way then that's the way it's going to be used - even if you didn't intend it to be used that way.

 

Currently, the quickest way to get the desired Layerset, Defaults & CAD Layer is to select an Annoset that has those settings.  The unfortunate part is that it's too much control in the wrong spot.  Consequently it results in a need for a Layerset for almost every Annoset.  It also means that we have to have an Annoset for each scale.  That's a lot of complexity and not really that easy to set up.

 

Added to that is the fact that we have to have Defaults for the various annotation objects for each scale and Text Styles for each scale and you wind up with a very large matrix of possibilities.  Naturally that leads to confusion and frustration.

[lbuttery]

Larry:

 

select the 1/4" anno-set and have "use active layerset" specified

 

then change the layerset on the toolbar as needed and each chosen

layerset will use the 1/4" anno-set

 

a basic/standard user probably won't have need for more than the anno-sets

provided by CA OOB

 

the "power-users" need what they need

 

Lew

[rlackore]

Larry:

 

select the 1/4" anno-set and have "use active layerset" specified

 

then change the layerset on the toolbar as needed and each chosen

layerset will use the 1/4" anno-set

 

But with this method, aren't you're placing ALL your annotations on the same layers (as defined by the annoset) for EVERY 1/4" drawing. What do you do when you're producing 1/4" floor plans, 1/4" reflected ceiling plans, 1/4" framing plans, etc? I don't understand.

[lbuttery]

Robert:

 

if those various 1/4 views/details use different "grouped defaults"

then you would need an anno-set for each one that is different

 

for views/details that use the same "grouped defaults" they can share the same anno-set

 

watch CA's video's #1305 and #1306

 

some users may need more - others can use what CA provides OOB

 

it's not a one-size fits all

 

What works for Joe and Scott and other "power-users"

may not be needed for some (like me)

 

I can see a newbie suffering "brain-melt" trying to understand/implement

"power-user" anno-sets when all they need is a basic set

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

Larry:

 

select the 1/4" anno-set and have "use active layerset" specified

 

then change the layerset on the toolbar as needed and each chosen

layerset will use the 1/4" anno-set

 

a basic/standard user probably won't have need for more than the anno-sets

provided by CA OOB

 

the "power-users" need what they need

 

Lew

 

Lew,

 

Thanks for the advice but I probably didn't make myself clear. I am perfectly fine with the way Anno Sets are set up and have been using them productively since X3.

 

NEVER used 1/4" Anno set of any kind as I was never trained classically as an architect so I have no need for 1/4" anything. I've named and cutomized around 20 different Anno Sets that suit my work flow just fine. I'm not looking for anything to change or any tips as my work flow suits me just fine. Not saying there's nothing for me to learn just nothing I want to change right now. I'll let Joe deal with the changes he thinks are needed.

[lbuttery]

 I've named and cutomized around 20 different Anno Sets

 

Larry:

 

I'm trying to learn

 

can you share your 20 anno-sets ???

 

Lew

[ebdesign]

 

 

Unfortunately, it seems like annotation sets are now being viewed as a solution to problems that they were never intended to handle.

 Can we make that a "sticky"?

[HumbleChief]

 I've named and cutomized around 20 different Anno Sets

 

Larry:

 

I'm trying to learn

 

can you share your 20 anno-sets ???

 

Lew

Tried to take a screen shot of the drop down box but can't figure that out.

 

I use 7 or 8 on every plan and create them as I need them for special sets and construction techniques. I have new plan where the homeowner wants a raingutter plan, I'll create a new Anno Set for that one.

 

As follows;

 

Anno As Built Set

Anno Demo Set

Anno Detail Set

Anno Elelctrical Set

Anno Elevation Set

Anno Foundation Set

Anno Framing Floor Set

Anno Framing Ceiling Set

Anno Patio Cover Set

Anno Roof Framing Set

Anno Framing Set

Anno Framing Steel Set

Anno Plot Plan BMP's Set

Anno Plot Plan Elevation Set

Anno Plot Plan Set

Anno Proposed Set

Anno Proposed Set Bare Bones

Anno Roofing Set

Anno Section Set

[Joe_Carrick]

Larry,

 

Why not just a new Layer Set?  Is it because you want to have a different CAD Layer or a different "Locate Object" setting in Dimensions that you need an Annoset to select everything at once?

[lbuttery]

Larry:

 

thanks for posting

 

trying to learn - why would you need a different set for raingutters ?

 

what would be different from the other anno sets ???

 

what's different among the various framing anno-sets ???

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

Mostly it's just habit and easy for me to remember but if i do a raingutter set of plans I would like all the 'defaults' to be set what I choose to set them. Text, Callouts, Arrows, Dimensions, and the raingutters themselves. I might be able to use just a Layer Set but I don't understand that method and this is so easy for me to remember and all my settings will be consistent through all future plans as well.

 

Lew, A Framing Ceiling Anno Set is mostly controlled by the Layer Set (Joe's point above perhaps?) and I just find it easier to have the Anno Set control the Layer Set and the differences would be (obvious once you delve in) that a ceiling framing set shows the ceiling framing and the roofing set shows the roofing framing etc. each along with its annotation text set to separate layer etc.