Brick Sill

[Designer1]

Does anyone know how to get the brick sill to move inside towards the window versus just sticking outside the wall?  I do have the recessed into wall selected.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Chad

[rlackore]

Chief won't do this for you - their window sill functionality is woefully inadequate for cases like this. If it's important enough, you can use a Molding Polyline. The added difficulty with an angled sill is that as you raise it into position you have to account for the bottom edge of the wall opening poking through:

 

...and when you raise it enough to obscure the wall edge, it will intrude on the bottom of the window jamb, so if you really want it to look nice, you need to thicken the bottom jamb so everything appears even all the way around the window:

 

Good luck.

[MarkMc]

7 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Does anyone know how to get the brick sill to move inside towards the window versus just sticking outside the wall?  I do have the recessed into wall selected.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Chad

Don't use a sill. Make a symbol for the brick, then use -treatements, exterior millwork below casing. You will need to find the best origin and stretch areas to make it look right. Your signature doesn't say what version you are using? In X9 and later

I make the symbol how I think it works and open a 3D view. If it looks wrong then I open the symbol in the library and make an adjustment- in X9 and above you can then just drag the revised symbol onto the old one and it (usually) replaces the old one. IF it doesn't then you have to use the dbx to re-select the symbol.

Screen shot show the original symbol on the right and corrected origin on the left. Once I have a window I'm happy with I add it to the library and rename it. Then go to the next one of the same size that needs to be replaced, select, replace from library, replace all identical in plan. Presto

[tommy1]

I have a library of brick molding profiles that I use and apply it to the sill profile.

[rlackore]

1 hour ago, solver said:

This a sill from the library, not a molding polyline.

 

Post a simple plan showing the problem please. 

 

 

Eric, that doesn't look like any sill I have in my default Library:

 

The problem I can't solve with Chief's sill is that if I use a profile for a brick sill as built IRL (15 degree angle), I get a gap in the wall beneath the sill (presumably because Chief uses the profile's bounding box to calculate the opening, not the actual cross-section depth of the profile where it intersects the wall):

 

Have you found a way to overcome this?

 

[Ridge_Runner]

24 minutes ago, rlackore said:

The problem I can't solve with Chief's sill is that if I use a profile for a brick sill as built IRL (15 degree angle), I get a gap in the wall beneath the sill (presumably because Chief uses the profile's bounding box to calculate the opening, not the actual cross-section depth of the profile where it intersects the wall):

Do you have "apron" unchecked in dbx? That is what usually gives me the gap below. When I uncheck apron it goes away.

 

1 hour ago, tommy1 said:

I have a library of brick molding profiles that I use and apply it to the sill profile.

This is how I do my sills also; seems to work much better. I also use my own profiles for the lintels when needed. I never could get CA's to look right when using brick.

[rlackore]

1 minute ago, solver said:

 

It's one I made, but don't think it is anything special.

 

Here is the plan. I placed the profile just in front of the window.

 

b-sill.zip

 

 

 

Eric, I can't open X10. But, I'm confused - in this post:

1 hour ago, solver said:

This a sill from the library, not a molding polyline.

 

Post a simple plan showing the problem please. 

 

 

you imply that you're not using a molding polyline, but in your second post you state "I placed the profile just in front of the window". Which is it: a molding polyline with a profile, or a profile specified in the window dbx?

[rlackore]

8 minutes ago, Ridge_Runner said:

Do you have "apron" unchecked in dbx? That is what usually gives me the gap below. When I uncheck apron it goes away.

 

This is how I do my sills also; seems to work much better. I also use my own profiles for the lintels when needed. I never could get CA's to look right when using brick.

 

Yes,. apron is unchecked.

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, rlackore said:

 

Eric, I can't open X10. But, I'm confused - in this post:

 

you imply that you're not using a molding polyline, but in your second post you state "I placed the profile just in front of the window". Which is it: a molding polyline with a profile, or a profile specified in the window dbx?

 

The sill profile is part of the window itself, and just to verify, Eric's example has the same problem you mentioned earlier but its not noticeable due to the thickness of his siding. 

[tommy1]

29 minutes ago, Ridge_Runner said:

Do you have "apron" unchecked in dbx? That is what usually gives me the gap below. When I uncheck apron it goes away.

 

This is how I do my sills also; seems to work much better. I also use my own profiles for the lintels when needed. I never could get CA's to look right when using brick.

Yes, I too have a large library for lintels. I do a lot of historical homes and lintels for different looks.

[rlackore]

Just now, solver said:

I placed the profile I chose in the plan for others to see, just in front of the window.

 

Oh, placed in plan. Obviously, that's what confused me about your post. Since I can't open X10, I can't see the profile.

[rlackore]

Eric, thanks for posting an X9 plan.  Your less aggressive sill slope (7 degrees) and fatter wall (4" masonry cavity) results in a less noticeable bottom gap in the wall opening. For the OP's wall - an IRL brick sill slope of 15 degrees and a 1" to 2" EIFS thickness - I believe a molding polyline is a better solution if accuracy in Cross-Section and Ortho/3D views are important.

[SNestor]

If you takes Eric's profile and make the bottom flat...change the pitch to 15 degrees if you prefer...save this profile in your library and attach it as a sill it fills the gap.  I don't think it's worth the time or trouble to use molding PL to create a "perfect" brick sill...to time consuming.  

 

attached is the revised plan with the new sill.  Yea...it's not perfect but if you have to draw a section of a standard typical brick sill in exact detail for a brick mason...maybe you need new mason?

 

Erics modified b-sill X9.plan

 

[rlackore]

12 minutes ago, SNestor said:

If you takes Eric's profile and make the bottom flat...change the pitch to 15 degrees if you prefer...save this profile in your library and attach it as a sill it fills the gap.  I don't think it's worth the time or trouble to use molding PL to create a "perfect" brick sill...to time consuming.  

 

attached is the revised plan with the new sill.  Yea...it's not perfect but if you have to draw a section of a standard typical brick sill in exact detail for a brick mason...maybe you need new mason?

 

Erics modified b-sill X9.plan

 

 

Yes, sure. And there are more important issues Chief needs to fix, but in the quest for an accurate model, a window sill should be modeled with reasonable accuracy. The wall opening that is cut should be based off the cross-section of the sill profile - not the sill profile's bounding box. (There are several instances where Chief gets lazy and uses bounding boxes to determine things instead of the actual geometry of the object).

[Designer1]

Wow Im blown away at all the responses... I havent been able to get back on Chieftalk for two days and a ton of information...thanks for the replies! 

 

The reason I used the brick sill is because Chief came out with a special help article on how to make a brick sill molding.  For years Ive used this molding and have had zero issues.  Ive read all the feedback but realize that chief must have changed something in X9 (thats what Im currently using) because the same method as previous versions using the brick sill dont work.  Here is a pictures of a design I started in 2014... I cant remember what version of chief was out in 2014 but I had no problems with the sill and you just selected recessed into wall and it was great. 

 

Years back chief came out with a custom brick molding you could use for a sill... I just did a search for it but couldnt find the sill but the soldier course trim here it is...

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00797/creating-a-soldier-course.html

 

I had a few questions based on some of your comments...

 

1. Eric- how did you get that sill when I didnt see that in any of my standard sill profiles?  Was it a custom you made?

 

2.  Tommy- sounds like a great variety of window sill you have... did you custom make those or was it an outside manufacture you got those from?

 

If you compare the two sill pictures I have on here you can see how correct the same exact molding profile displayed back in 2014 chief and the same sill displays in X9....Im not happy with the results.  Maybe a chief technical support person will chime in here and let us know if there were any software changes made to affect this option or perhaps a new way of selecting something else in the dbx that can achieve the same results.

[Alaskan_Son]

5 hours ago, Designer1 said:

If you compare the two sill pictures I have on here you can see how correct the same exact molding profile displayed back in 2014 chief and the same sill displays in X9

 

I'd be very curious to see that first plan.  I suspect you did something differently.  Too many variables to guess at though.

 

BTW, this kind of thing can totally be done with the sill but it requires some relatively advanced symbol manipulation techniques.  I don't have time to get into it right now, but here's a quick sample plan that includes the 5 symbol generations it took to create the final 3D molding symbol (polyline solids>fixture>1/2 height fixture using bounding box>molding symbol>molding symbol with modified origins and bounding box)...

Sill example.plan

 

[Designer1]

Michael, your brick sill looks a lot better then mine!   I made my sill many years ago when chief just first came out with the tutorial for this. Yours looks cleaner and less grout lines.  Eric and Michael the sample sills you posted are they for us chiefers to use?  I dont assume things posted are gifts for others to use without asking the creators of the symbols first!

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, Designer1 said:

Michael, your brick sill looks a lot better then mine!   I made my sill many years ago when chief just first came out with the tutorial for this. Yours looks cleaner and less grout lines.  Eric and Michael the sample sills you posted are they for us chiefers to use?  I dont assume things posted are gifts for others to use without asking the creators of the symbols first!

 

I appreciate you asking but if I post it here in the forum you can always assume you’re free to use and share it unless I specifically state otherwise.  On a side note though, I also do welcome and appreciate donations if you ever find any of my offerings valuable enough to you.  It helps to offset the time it’s takes to answer questions, post tips, create custom content, and produce tutorial videos amongst other things.  Anyway, there’s my plug.  Have a good rest of your night

[Designer1]

Great thanks Michael.  Do you by chance have a website with chief stuff that you have built like symbols and such?  I know there are a lot of chiefers who have tutorial videos and symbols they sell.  When you mentioned your creative content I figured Id ask because I didnt see a website link on your signature.

 

Thanks again to everyone for their input!

[Alaskan_Son]

15 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

Great thanks Michael.  Do you by chance have a website with chief stuff that you have built like symbols and such?  I know there are a lot of chiefers who have tutorial videos and symbols they sell.  When you mentioned your creative content I figured Id ask because I didnt see a website link on your signature.

 

Thanks again to everyone for their input!

 

You’re mire than welcome.  To answer your question though...

 

No, I don’t have a website but I have seriously comsidered setting one up at some point here.  Most of my free offerings can just be found littered throughout my last several thousand posts and in the 200 or so videos I have posted on my YouTube channel.  

 

I also create various custom tools, symbols, macros, videos, customize fonts, and provide consultation and handful of other services on an hourly basis as time permits.  I’m thinking I may set up some kind of website or subscription based service at some point here.  I’m sure you know how it goes though...It all takes time.  I only have so much of the stuff though

[Designer1]

Yeah that would be nice to be able to go to a website to see everything youve designed.  Also, I tried opening the file you posted but was that designed in X10?  It wouldnt open for some reason Im using X9.  I tried Eric plan and his was in X9 so it opened fine but this one for some reason wont work. 

[Alaskan_Son]

10 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Yeah that would be nice to be able to go to a website to see everything youve designed.  Also, I tried opening the file you posted but was that designed in X10?  It wouldn't open for some reason Im using X9.  I tried Eric plan and his was in X9 so it opened fine but this one for some reason wont work. 

 

Sorry, yeah I'm in X10.  Don't have time to redo in X9 right now.  Here's the gist though...

 

1.  Make a brick and mortar for your 3D molding symbol and Tools>Symbol>Convert to Symbol.  Add to library as a fixture.

 

2.  Drop that symbol into a blank plan, reduce the height by a known percentage (height * .5 for this example), and then Tools>Symbol Convert to Symbol.  Add to library as fixture.  One of the big things to understand is that Chief uses the bounding box information for a number of things depending on where and how the object is being used.  In the case of window sills and 3D molding symbols, the bounding box is used to cut the wall's finish layers back.  What you want is a smaller bounding box...we'll deal with fixing the height of the symbol itself later.  Its important that you create the new symbol though in order to generate NEW GEOMETRY.  You might have a resized symbol, but until you Convert to Symbol, it will still use its original geometry and bounding box. 

 

3.  Drop that modified symbol into a blank plan and Convert to Symbol.  This time add to your library as a Molding.  During the Convert to Symbol process, check Show Advanced Options, and on the Sizing tab, change your bounding box height by the same percentage as you changed you original symbol in Step 2 to make it even smaller.  The 2nd big thing to understand with the bounding box is that it is also used to tell Chief how tall the symbol has to be in order to display the geometry at full height.  This is normally a 1:1 ratio, but you can utilize this number for all sorts of other purposes.  In this case, the symbol's geometry is already 1/2 as tall as we want it to be.  Lets assume our desired sill symbol is 6" tall and we've already reduced it down to 3".  This means when we assign the molding to our window sill, that it will only be 3" tall.  By further reducing the bounding box height to 1-1/2" we are telling Chief that we want the full 3" geometry to display when the height is set to 1-1/2".  The problem with window sills is that we can't control the height of the sill.  The height is set by the original geometry of the molding symbol (3" in this case).  That means if we want our symbol to display as the full 6" that we need to make it twice as tall as it is...1-1/2" will display the original 3" geometry, and 3" will double that to the desired 6" height.

 

4.  Adjust the origin offset of your molding symbol as necessary by right clicking on it in the library and selecting Open Symbol.  Giving it positive Y offset will push it deeper into the wall, adjusting the Z offset will move it up or down, and adjusting the X offset will adjust the pattern a bit.  The X offset is something you may end up wanting to adjust on a window by window basis sometimes.  Note that you can use the same molding symbol to do this.  The window will remember the molding as it was originally placed.  I would probably recommend you take a cross section of your window to pull measurements and watch what happens when you change the offsets.  Oftentimes you can just click on the sill with the library object selected to see your changes, but you may find the need to open the window back up and re-select the molding from the library to see your changes. 

 

I know that all sounded pretty complicated but once you wrap your head around it, it's really not too bad.  It just comes down to understanding the difference between the symbol's geometry (which is always static), the symbol's bounding box, how the bounding box is used to control display of the symbol's geometry, and how the origin offsets work.

 

Oh ya, just on a side note, some of the other solutions offered above were totally valid.  I just wanted to show that you could indeed use the sill. 

 

And a second side note:  I could have redone the example in X9 in the time it took me to type that up.  I thought my quick description was going to be a little quicker than it was : )

[Kbird1]

12 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Yeah that would be nice to be able to go to a website to see everything youve designed.  Also, I tried opening the file you posted but was that designed in X10?  It wouldnt open for some reason Im using X9.  I tried Eric plan and his was in X9 so it opened fine but this one for some reason wont work. 

 

If you have SSA you can download the Beta from your Digital Locker , just don't do plans in it if you don't plan to upgrade as it will expire , usually a few Weeks after the Full Version is Released, and you won't be able to view or Work in the Plans any longer.

 

If you get SSA now X10 will be "free" ($495) when released otherwise you will have to pay the Upgrade Fee....

 

 

M.

[Designer1]

Thanks for the replies.  When I get X10 I will come back to this post to pick up the nice brick Sill Michael...thanks again for the efforts!

Chad

[Designer1]

Here we are again with the brick sills....  I like how the second windows brick sill is recessed but like how the first windows casing isnt recessed.  Is there a way to have both the non recessed casing yet have recessed brick sill?

 

Thanks in advance!