Disappearing, reappearing layers in layout!

[country]

I was having a problem finishing up a layout set yesterday.  I had sent everything to layout, looking the way I want, went to print a check set and found problems.  My roof layout was showing some CAD default items from the main level (2 story house).  I opened that plan view and turned off cad default layer and when I returned to the layout set the cad default items in my separate cad details had also disappeared.  If I turn them on in the detail, that also turns them back on in the roof layout!  It was an endless loop.  I changed everything to different layers and managed to get a printable plan.  Why would a roof layout plan affect CAD Details that only had PDF (cad default layer) and notes (text layer) in it?

Must be user error and I will send the old copy of plan and layout to tech support but would like to know if anyone else has seen this.

[dshall]

40 minutes ago, country said:

I was having a problem finishing up a layout set yesterday.  I had sent everything to layout, looking the way I want, went to print a check set and found problems.  My roof layout was showing some CAD default items from the main level (2 story house).  I opened that plan view and turned off cad default layer and when I returned to the layout set the cad default items in my separate cad details had also disappeared.  If I turn them on in the detail, that also turns them back on in the roof layout!  It was an endless loop.  I changed everything to different layers and managed to get a printable plan.  Why would a roof layout plan affect CAD Details that only had PDF (cad default layer) and notes (text layer) in it?

Must be user error and I will send the old copy of plan and layout to tech support but would like to know if anyone else has seen this.

 

Interesting,  I am noticing this behavior too.  I am chalking it up to user error....  for now.

 

 I will keep an eye out for this behavior and let you know.

[country]

I have noticed it on a couple plans.  I will let you know if I hear anything back from tech.

Glad I'm not the only one.  It was driving me crazy and now I'm afraid to open the plan again for a couple small revisions:-(

[dshall]

Mon Cherie,  not sure if this issue,  I am not sure this is my issue,  but it is an issue for me,

 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

Not sure but I think the reference set you might be using references the floor you just came from another- wards , if you come from level 0 to level 1 then your reference is level o. if you go to level 3 then to level 2 you are referencing level 2. Just a guess

[Dermot]

Quote

 

I was having a problem finishing up a layout set yesterday.  I had sent everything to layout, looking the way I want, went to print a check set and found problems.  My roof layout was showing some CAD default items from the main level (2 story house).  I opened that plan view and turned off cad default layer and when I returned to the layout set the cad default items in my separate cad details had also disappeared.  If I turn them on in the detail, that also turns them back on in the roof layout!  It was an endless loop.  I changed everything to different layers and managed to get a printable plan.  Why would a roof layout plan affect CAD Details that only had PDF (cad default layer) and notes (text layer) in it?

Must be user error and I will send the old copy of plan and layout to tech support but would like to know if anyone else has seen this.

 

 

My best guess is that your different views are using the same layer set.  If you make a change to a given layer set (like turning some layers off or on), then all views that are using that layer set will be affected. 

 

This is why we used to always make copies of your active layer set when you sent views to a layout.  If you make a copy at the time you send, you can then make changes to your original layer set and not affect anything on the layout views.  Most people felt that this was not the most efficient way to work so we changed the OOB default so as not to make copies of the layer sets.  You can change this any time you send a view to layout on the Send to Layout dialog.  Just select the "Make Copy of Active Layer Set" box and specify the name of the new layer set.

 

[Dermot]

Quote

Mon Cherie,  not sure if this issue,  I am not sure this is my issue,  but it is an issue for me,

 

I don't think your issue has anything to do with Sherry's issue.

 

I think your issue is that you want the program to remember which floor is being displayed as your reference floor every time you change the current floor.  Unfortunately, the program just doesn't do this currently.

 

The program will automatically change your reference floor every time you change the current floor.

 

So here's my recommendation to make your life less confusing.  Instead of using the floor up/down tools, use the Change Floor/Reference dialog (click on the floor number button).  Then you can specify both the Current Floor and the Reference Floor at the same time.

 

 

[MarkMc]

I have had something similar where text layers showed up in layout/annosets where they are supposed to be off. I can't say if it's pilot error or something else. I just change it and move on. I often (more so lately) have a lot of windows open, sometimes I've managed to have a second copy of a plan but cant' say that was the case, I always have several elevations up, I also often copy paste a plan view in layout and change the layerset for it there then go back to the plan.

I've only noticed it in plan and just put it off to something I did, will try to pay more attention (in which case it will never happen again)

[DRAWZILLA]

Funny, I have never used that "make copy of active layer set" and never had Scott's problem.

[Joe_Carrick]

Dermot,

 

This has been a problem for some time.  It has been suggested before that the Annosets should not only specify the Current Layer Set but optionally also the Current Reference Layer Set and the Referenced Floor Level

 

Alternatively, the Layer Sets could be provided with those items. 

The options for Referenced Floor Level should be:

• Foundation
• <Floor Above>
• <Floor Below>
• <Previous Floor> This is the current behavior when changing Floors
• 1st Floor
• 2nd Floor
• 3rd Floor
• nth Floor
• Attic

Currently I have my system set up to work with the <Previous Floor> scenario, but it would be nice to have the <Floor Above> or <Floor Below> optionally locked. 

 

IAE, I almost never want it to change, especially in the Layout.

 

CA should really take a look at setting this up so we can rely on the Layout being consistent.

 

 

[johnny]

I have to say, the issue that Scott is demonstrating has screwed me up so many times its not even funny....since the view auto-updates in Layout, so I sometimes dont even know i made a change to the appearance of my drawings thru simply navigating the model.

 

Scott hit it on the head when asked "why would someone want that functionality"???  I certainly dont.

[Alaskan_Son]

2 hours ago, Dermot said:

My best guess is that your different views are using the same layer set.  If you make a change to a given layer set (like turning some layers off or on), then all views that are using that layer set will be affected. 

 

 This is exactly what I am guessing is going on in this particular situation too.

 

 Now, having said that (and completely disregarding the reference layer set thing)…I have also personally noticed a lot of problems with layer sets "changing on me" since X9.   Like Mark I have simply fixed it and went back to work and I haven't reported anything yet because I haven't found anything repeatable or reportable.   I've been assuming it has  something to do with the change in my personal workflow  and not a Chief problem but I haven't pinpointed it exactly  so I'm still not sure.   I do know that I have often returned to my floor plan only to find all my studs showing when the wall framing layer was previously turned off... and other similar things like that.

 

I can say this though… If you are the type of person that has a lot of windows/views open at the same time it is very easy to have the wrong view (and therefore wrong layer set)  active when you attempt to make any given layer display option change.   I've caught myself making that mistake and  it's anyone's guess  how many times I've made that mistake without catching it. 

[Dermot]

Regarding the layer changes affecting other views, I know of no bugs that would cause this.  Sherry did send a plan and layout to tech support regarding a different bug and I verified that she was using the same layer set for multiple layout views.  This would certainly cause the behavior she was describing.  If some one thinks they have found a bug regarding this, then please report this to tech support so that we can look into it further.

 

[Dermot]

Regarding reference floors and reference display, please note that I was talking about changing the floor in plan views, not layout views.  Each layout box will remember all of the appropriate settings when you send a plan view including the reference floor, reference layer set, and even whether your reference is displayed first or last. 

The only way I know of to change this data for the layout is by using the Plan View panel on the Layout Box Specification dialog. 

 

[dshall]

I am not sure if  CA is listening to what we are saying.  

 

I get it,  there is no bug,  but for some of us,  we do not think the anno/layer/ref sets work as well as they could/should.

 

To sum it up,  I would like to be able to select an anno set that triggers the layer set and the ref set to display,  and whether I toggle up through the levels or down through the floor levels,  the display remains the same  (unlike the behavior I demonstrated in the vid).

 

I understand I can open a view from layout and the anno/layer/ref sets are correct.  But I would rather work without the layout file open....... why?........ because having the layout  open tends to slow down my computer.  

 

What frustrates me is I do not hear CA say,  "we get the request,  it makes sense,  we will  work on it".  I do  not think I am requesting anything special or unwarranted.  This is the way 99% of us work.

 

 

 

 

 

[country]

Thank you Dermot, for reviewing the plan I sent in.  I went back to the other plan I was having problems with and found some CAD details that were using the wrong layerset.  I fixed them and all the problems went away.  Don't know how it happened but most definitely USER error.

[dshall]

8 hours ago, dshall said:

.......To sum it up,  I would like to be able to select an anno set that triggers the layer set and the ref set to display,  and whether I toggle up through the levels or down through the floor levels,  the display remains the same .......

 

Will somebody please shoot me in the head.  Working on a more complicated project ....... the walk out basement scenario....  blah blah blah........  why can't I select a button and the anno/layer/ref sets are there?  Why do I have to &%&^$&^^% muddle my way through this crap every time.

 

why why why......  just plain stupid..... no wait....  I am stupid,  there are probably other stupid people out there,  please CA,  try to figure this out.......  try to figure  out how we can do a one click and get the correct anno/layer/ref set for a particular view that we already have in layout.

 

Seriously,  am I the  only person that gets frustrated with this nonsense?

 

I have been drawing plans for over 40 years,  and never never never when I was drawing a foundation plan would I want to see dimensions or notes from the framing plan.....  (most of the time)

 

  Do you guys get this?  One click should activate a predetermined anno/layer/ref set combo.  We are draftsman,  we are not the brightest guys on the planet,  Have you guys seen Perry spell?    Have you guys seen any of my vids?  We are not the brightest guys in the U.S.,  we are not the smartest guys in California.  In fact we are not the brightest  guys in Southern California.  

 

Please help us out.....  and let this be a warning to you.....  if this does not get fixed soon,  I will show up at the next UGM in August and there will be heck to pay........  and after the heck has been payed,  I will be playing The CDL  resort  course with my Buddy Bruce.  Maybe this time I will be able to get my tee shot  on the green for the Island Hole.  Such an easy hole but somehow I miss that stupid green every time.  

 

Hey,  if any of you CA guys want to join us for a   round of golf, let me know,  I would love to play a round with you guys.   We plan on being in your neck of the woods from Thursday to   Thursday,  we will be playing courses in CDL and Spokane.

 

Just venting.

 

[DRAWZILLA]

I agree with you 1 million percent.

[Alaskan_Son]

I'm with you Scott and I completely agree, but I must ask...

 

Have you not tried any of the methods that myself and probably others have posted elsewhere?  You can use your normal layout views to access those combinations, you can set up a layout page with all those combinations preset in little layout box "buttons", and you can even set up a similar layout box system right in your plan...which is what I have personally started doing.  

 

 With as much as you talk about muddling through this particular part of the process I just can't help but think you're still doing it the hard way.  

[dshall]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I'm with you Scott and I completely agree, but I must ask...

 

Have you not tried any of the methods I've posted elsewhere?  You can use your normal layout views to access those combinations, you can set up a layout page with all those combinations preset in little

layout box "buttons", and you can even set up a similar layout box

system right in your plan...which is what I have personally started doing.  

 

 With as much as you talk about muddling through the process I just can't help but think you're still doing it the hard way.  

 

I think I acknowledged I can get what I want via the layout.  And as clever as you are,  I know there are other methods to get what I want via one of your methods.

.  

but why can't I be in a plan file and click a button and get what I want?  Is there a secret reason why CA makes it difficult? 

 

5 years......  in 5 years I don't care what CA wants to do.  I'm done.  

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, dshall said:

 

I think I acknowledged I can get what I want via the layout.  And as clever as you are,  I know there are other methods to get what I want via one of your methods.

.  

but why can't I be in a plan file and click a button and get what I want?  Is there a secret reason why CA makes it difficult? 

 

5 years......  in 5 years I don't care what CA wants to do.  I'm done.  

 I totally agree that it could be WAY faster and that it is something we should be able to do with a single click. . 

[Dermot]

Sherry,

 

You are most welcome.  Glad I could help someone.

[Richard_Morrison]

This may go over some heads, or others are likely to say "too complicated," but there is a way to create extensive keyboard scripts that are triggered with one click, that will get you what you want. "Back in the day," Rob Fisher was the guru of this: http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread.php?34156-Keystroke-Macros I suspect if you spent some time with this, you could get some amazing results.

 

Macro Toolworks is still around: http://www.pitrinec.com/