Still Baffled After All These Years...

[HumbleChief]

Trying to understand the simplest of basic default floor settings and am completely baffled and quite embarrassed to be posting this. If anyone could take a look I would really appreciate it.

 

Here's the plan.

 

default plan 1.plan

 

[joey_martin]

Rebuild the foundation. Set the foundation to AUTO and leave it there.

[joey_martin]

If you change the defaults after the plan is started you have to set the rebuild(s) to auto the get the new defaults to take over.

[HumbleChief]

Thanks Joey, Maybe the vid wasn't clear? I have the foundation set to Auto Re-build to stem walls but it is still re-building with a mono slab. I know I'm missing something simple but I deleted everything and started from scratch with absolutely nothing in the plan. Set defaults, set auto rebuild foundation to the stem wall foundation defaults but I still get a mono slab. Missing something easy. Thanks again.

 

Here's the foundation dbx, pretty simple and set to rebuild auto with stem walls but I still get a mono slab

 

 

 

[joey_martin]

Go to the FOUNDATION LEVEL and select the "room". You will see that somewhere along the line, maybe this is a SAVE AS from another project....anyway, if you select the room from the foundation level, you will see that it is still set to monoslab. Uncheck those and turn auto back on and there you go.

[HumbleChief]

Thank Joey,

 

I'll bet that will work but why don't the default settings take care of all that stuff and simply build to the default settings??? Should a user have to look in 3 or 4 places to re-define default settings?

 

I wonder if there's something weird about that specific plan? It's my default template plan and maybe it's been around for too long? Still don't understand why the defaults don't simply build to the defaults.

 

Just tried it and it indeed build with a floor now and not a mono slab but instead of building with a 5 1/2" floor framing member, as is set in the defaults, it has a 4" concrete floor so that has to be changed to the default floor structure by checking the default box, instead of, again, simply building to the defaults.

 

I have a feeling that plan is whacked from too many years of abuse. I'm going to send it and see if it needs a refresh as my default template plan.

 

Thanks again for taking the time.

[joey_martin]

Somewhere in your template, you have set basement/crawl rooms to be monoslabs, or as you said, its an old template and somehow the info was changed. Remember, Chief reads rooms first. If you have the "foundation room" set as a monoslab, Chief will override the default until it's changed to match.

 

I had a couple odd occurrences with my template when moving to X8 as well. Made a new template and no more problems.

 

In my opinion, Chief was doing exactly as expected based on the settings.

[DRAWZILLA]

You missed the framing tab also, it has floor defaults

[johnny]

I'll say it - Larry is 100% correct. Yes, it can be solved, but why would the app show something that is not correct anywhere?? It should be impossible to have conflicting settings to make someone think they've made choices (through user input) only to have some other location where the same information needs to be setup again. Why does one area take president over another?

That is nuts - and non-intuitive.

[Alaskan_Son]

Larry, your defaults are fine.  The problem is that the 1st floor room is set to Monolithic Slab Foundation.  You must have checked that by accident at some point.  And in my opinion, the fact that the room settings can override the foundation settings is a very good thing.  It allows for us to use auto foundations and have different foundation types in different areas.  Not non-intuitive at all IMO.

[HumbleChief]

Somewhere in your template, you have set basement/crawl rooms to be monoslabs, or as you said, its an old template and somehow the info was changed. Remember, Chief reads rooms first. If you have the "foundation room" set as a monoslab, Chief will override the default until it's changed to match.

 

I had a couple odd occurrences with my template when moving to X8 as well. Made a new template and no more problems.

 

In my opinion, Chief was doing exactly as expected based on the settings.

All the 'room's and 'foundations' and 'floors' defaults are set to stem walls with a wood framed floor. This plan ALWAYS builds a mono slab and I think it is the plan that's messed up. I'm going to try another profile plan and see what I get.

[HumbleChief]

You missed the framing tab also, it has floor defaults

That's a new one on me. Couldn't find any such thing but I'm not the sharpest tool.

[johnny]

Larry, your defaults are fine.  The problem is that the 1st floor room is set to Monolithic Slab Foundation.  You must have checked that by accident at some point.  And in my opinion, the fact that the room settings can override the foundation settings is a very good thing.  It allows for us to use auto foundations and have different foundation types in different areas.  Not non-intuitive at all IMO.

 

I can't see the logic in having the ability to have conflicting data exist anywhere.  Yes, the functionality is great and I understand why having room-by-room settings would a positive.  However, there should be some alert or way to quickly ascertain if any of the default settings conflict with the individual room settings - or vise-versa.

 

To have no message or ability to check this expect thru trial and error is almost the definition of non-intuitive.  I believe intuitive is not being able to have an object governed by 2 data input locations without at least clearly alerting the conflict (if there is one).

 

To solve, I'm talking a little alert graphic or something where you could hover your mouse over and learn about the conflict (which may be exactly what the user wants).  Something simple.

[HumbleChief]

Larry, your defaults are fine.  The problem is that the 1st floor room is set to Monolithic Slab Foundation.  You must have checked that by accident at some point.  And in my opinion, the fact that the room settings can override the foundation settings is a very good thing.  It allows for us to use auto foundations and have different foundation types in different areas.  Not non-intuitive at all IMO.

Thanks Michael but the 1st floor is not 'set' to Monolithic Slab Foundation, it ends up as a monolithic slab even though the defaults are set to somethings else. I didn't check it by accident, Chief created that floor condition from a completely different set of defaults, which is the problem I've been trying to (poorly) explain.

 

I agree having different room settings over ride foundations is a good thing but it's a better thing, I think, when setting defaults that the floors are built to those defaults. Thanks again.

[HumbleChief]

It's the plan boss, it's the plan...

 

I just opened Chief's X8 profile plan and it behaves exactly as expected. I'm going to re-do my profile plan - hope that saves someone some grief.

 

[johnny]

Having small little indicators could help someone trouble-shoot these issues quickly.  IMO having multiple input locations for control data makes this sort of thing a must.  I know like Larry i've run into things like this and I can blow and hour or two quickly not realizing what is wrong.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

Having small little indicators could help someone trouble-shoot these issues quickly.  IMO having multiple input locations for control data makes this sort of thing a must.  I know like Larry i've run into things like this and I can blow and hour or two quickly not realizing what is wrong.

Hey Johnny, Check the end of that last video. There actually is a warning of sorts that I didn't realize was there.

[johnny]

Actually that warning was good - but different than I think the problem you had was. Micheal's point (well taken) is that you can have default foundation types, but then come back and edit specific room settings for auto-foundation features - which can be in conflict with default.

The problem is that say you forget you changed a specific room, and go to make general changes to the defaults expecting those changes to show up everywhere - there isn't a warning or indication that you have other room settings in conflict. This is what was going on with your first plan example.

[Alaskan_Son]

Thanks Michael but the 1st floor is not 'set' to Monolithic Slab Foundation, it ends up as a monolithic slab even though the defaults are set to somethings else. I didn't check it by accident, Chief created that floor condition from a completely different set of defaults, which is the problem I've been trying to (poorly) explain.

 

I agree having different room settings over ride foundations is a good thing but it's a better thing, I think, when setting defaults that the floors are built to those defaults. Thanks again.

 

I'm sorry, I have to admit that I didn't watch the video I just opened the plan, so you may have explained just fine.  Anyway, I see what you're saying now.  Delete everything, draw 4 walls and that setting is automatically checked for some reason.  Draw 4 more walls off to the side though and they build correctly.  I agree, the plan has become corrupted one way or another.

 

EDIT:  After reading Glenn's explanation a little later in the thread I realize that "corrupted" is not the right word.  The plan has just become affected by your previous room settings (i.e. the room settings stick even after the room has been deleted).  Read Glenn's explanation for why this behavior exists.  The sticky settings make good sense to me now that I understand the reasoning.

[HumbleChief]

Actually that warning was good - but different than I think the problem you had was. Micheal's point (well taken) is that you can have default foundation types, but then come back and edit specific room settings for auto-foundation features - which can be in conflict with default.

The problem is that say you forget you changed a specific room, and go to make general changes to the defaults expecting those changes to show up everywhere - there isn't a warning or indication that you have other room settings in conflict. This is what was going on with your first plan example.

I think I get what you're saying. A use sets up defaults for a certain structure: Chief build structures differently or are somehow altered and there should be a warning that there are structures that don't match your defaults? Not sure that's what you mean but that warning would have gone off in my first plan and I would be alerted that some structures are not matching the defaults? That would be great if that's what you're talking about.

[HumbleChief]

...Draw 4 more walls off to the side though and they build correctly...

That's pretty weird, didn't try it but that plan's going away about now.

[lbuttery]

I agree with Johnny

 

not very intuitive at all

 

I have been recommending for almost a decade that Chief create a schedule

with ALL the info in the room dbx and default settings

 

with such a schedule we could see at a glance any rooms that vary from the defaults

or from each other - like a closet from a bedroom

 

it gets very tiresome having to open a room check the settings

probably having to write them down

then going to the next room - then the next - etc

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

One last follow up observation and I think it is the key to the problem. If the first floor is 'deleted' instead of just the walls removed I THINK it find its way around the issues presented early on. I'll try it with plan I posted.

 

YUP, That fixed all the weirdness and if someone runs into problems like this perhaps that will help to delete and rebuild the entire 'floor' not just delete the walls.

[glennw]

Larry,

 

You hit the nail on the head.

Chief has a "feature" whereby it remembers the settings that apply to a room so that if you edit it (or delete a wall), the settings will then be applied when the room is restored.

When the room is restored with the old settings (and you don't want those settings), you need to go into the room dbx and check Default for the various settings (or in this case, change the Floor settings).

This is what you missed doing in your vid.

[johnny]

I can buy into the speed of having "remember" like features present in Chief, but it would be much more helpful and intuitive if Chief could at least alert you to some of these conflicts.  Not so much alerts that get in your way, but just helpful reminders so you don't go looking for a rabbit down its own hole.