SAM & Template New Drawing Methods

[DRAWZILLA]

I see your point and that is a downfall of the template method, and that's why I have gone from many templates for different types of plans to only one generic template plan.

[HumbleChief]

1 minute ago, DRAWZILLA said:

I see your point and that is a downfall of the template method, and that's why I have gone from many templates for different types of plans to only one generic template plan.

Many templates would make me crazier. I can barely handle the one lol.

[michaelgia]

Why would someone send an elevation as Plot Lines which takes so much longer than a Live View?

What is the advantage?

[HumbleChief]

39 minutes ago, michaelgia said:

Why would someone send an elevation as Plot Lines which takes so much longer than a Live View?

What is the advantage?

Hey Michael, Are Plot Lines actually slower? I couldn't tell you because I've learned habits and techniques that work for me - which is the whole point of using Chief - finding what works for you. Early on I tried live views and had some troubles, maybe even in Alpha or Beta testing, can't remember. Tried a few things like technical illustrations etc. to get the look I wanted and then tried Plot Lines and was able to get some simple shadows that don't mess up the builders and I was done experimenting. Maybe it's time to rethink that approach but I'm too busy to try another option right now.

 

Try a couple methods and see what works for you. There are some who would never send an elevation with shadows because they do much more ConDoc centered work and the shadows get in the way. Others want color and shadows, others...you get the idea.

[dshall]

2 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

I see your point and that is a downfall of the template method, and that's why I have gone from many templates for different types of plans to only one generic template plan.

I completely agree.  1 template or SAM.

[dshall]

1 hour ago, michaelgia said:

Why would someone send an elevation as Plot Lines which takes so much longer than a Live View?

What is the advantage?

 

I think if it is "live"  it wants to update constantly which slows things down.  If you have a hot key,  you can hit the hotkey and in 43 seconds all elevations & sections etc. are updated.

 

[dshall]

I do not think Larry did a good job with his video,  I know what is going on and I was confused with his video.  If you could follow it,  super,  I will try to do a video of  my version of the TEMPLATE/SAM method before I leave the office today.

[HumbleChief]

4 minutes ago, dshall said:

I do not think Larry did a good job with his video,  I know what is going on and I was confused with his video.  If you could follow it,  super,  I will try to do a video of  my version of the TEMPLATE/SAM method before I leave the office today.

We would all appreciate it, would love to see a different take.

[Kiwideziner]

Larry I cannot understand why you relink your layout boxes all individually, this wastes heaps of time.

under tools>layout>ref plan files you can do it all at once. this makes the template much more powerful.

[HumbleChief]

29 minutes ago, Kiwideziner said:

Larry I cannot understand why you relink your layout boxes all individually, this wastes heaps of time.

under tools>layout>ref plan files you can do it all at once. this makes the template much more powerful.

I'm not sure I do in practice. I use your technique most of the time. I was just showing one way Chief works and was trying to illustrate one way files can get referenced. Wasn't meant as a treatise on how everyone should work in Chief. There are many other ways to work in Chief as you know and no way to show all the intricacies in a 10 minute video. If people understand how the referencing can work then at least they will have a chance to get a layout template that works. Did a quick vid hopefully showing the technique you described Graeme.

 

 

[dshall]

I just watched Larry's new video.

 

If somebody did not follow Larry's method,  let me know and I will  give you my take.

 

 

[michaelgia]

1 hour ago, dshall said:

I just watched Larry's new video.

 

If somebody did not follow Larry's method,  let me know and I will  give you my take.

 

 

Yes, I have a couple of questions:

1) often when I re-associate/link a new plan in the layout, only the floor plan updates. That is, the elevations and cross-sections don't always follow suit. 

So what controls that? Is it because the view names are not identical?

 

2) Do you place your annotations, such as, roof pitch, material notes, etc in the plan file view or the associated layout page?

 

I would really like to see this process demonstrated from start to finish. 

That is, open a layout which contains the construction documents and then re-save that as a layout for a new and different home. Re-link it to that new home, see exactly what was lost or gained in the process. Did all of the elevations and views carry forward or just some of them? 

 

(I would be forever in your debt. Supper and drinks)

Assuming we bump into each other at a Chief event or if you're ever in Montreal. 

 

cheers!

[Alaskan_Son]

36 minutes ago, michaelgia said:

Yes, I have a couple of questions:

1) often when I re-associate/link a new plan in the layout, only the floor plan updates. That is, the elevations and cross-sections don't always follow suit. 

So what controls that? Is it because the view names are not identical?

 

2) Do you place your annotations, such as, roof pitch, material notes, etc in the plan file view or the associated layout page?

 

I would really like to see this process demonstrated from start to finish. 

That is, open a layout which contains the construction documents and then re-save that as a layout for a new and different home. Re-link it to that new home, see exactly what was lost or gained in the process. Did all of the elevations and views carry forward or just some of them? 

 

(I would be forever in your debt. Supper and drinks)

Assuming we bump into each other at a Chief event or if you're ever in Montreal. 

 

cheers!

 

I don't like to get into these SAM/template method conversations too often because there are simply far too many variables and different workflows that work for different people, but I'd like to see if I can help answer a couple of your questions...

 

1)  If your elevation views or cross sections aren't set to Update Always, they will need to be manually updated.  They're just doing what you told them to do, and it shouldn't matter if you changed the view name or not.  The one other thing that could possibly happen though is that you could have deleted the associated camera...in which case you would have to delete and resend that particular view.

 

2)  I would strongly recommend you place as many of those view specific annotations as possible in the actual plan file view and NOT on layout. 

[Kiwideziner]

Larry  good  vid. I definitely did not mean to knock the first method, but was not sure wether people realized it could be done at once.

 

As for Michaels comments in the #38 post That would be my advice also.

[michaelgia]

Thank you for the response Michael. 

I think I may have been inadvertently deleting cameras here and there. 

 

[HumbleChief]

Good advice

[HumbleChief]

2 hours ago, michaelgia said:

Yes, I have a couple of questions:

1) often when I re-associate/link a new plan in the layout, only the floor plan updates. That is, the elevations and cross-sections don't always follow suit. 

So what controls that? Is it because the view names are not identical?

 

2) Do you place your annotations, such as, roof pitch, material notes, etc in the plan file view or the associated layout page?

 

I would really like to see this process demonstrated from start to finish. 

That is, open a layout which contains the construction documents and then re-save that as a layout for a new and different home. Re-link it to th in the layoutat new home, see exactly what was lost or gained in the process. Did all of the elevations and views carry forward or just some of them? 

 

(I would be forever in your debt. Supper and drinks)

Assuming we bump into each other at a Chief event or if you're ever in Montreal. 

 

cheers!

1. I think you need to make sure your elevations and cross sections reference the same plan file. If they do then any view should update if you change the referenced files.

 

2. Everything lives in the plan file and different Anno Sets are sent to Layout. Each Anno Set has the info for each layout view i.e. roofing, electrical etc. 

 

Check the last video I posted. It shows 2 new plan files re-referenced with the floor plans and elevations all changed to match each new plan files and their views.

[Alaskan_Son]

 

I think this statement is a little misleading.  Everything does not live in the plan file.  The question was whether to place notations in layout or in the plan file itself. 

 

If you place all your view specific notations in the plan file as I believe most of us would suggest, then yes...all the notations live in the plan.  If however you place notations directly into the layout then no, those do NOT live in the plan file.  They live only in the layout.  I think there might be legitimate reasons to do this from time to time, but there aren't many of those instances.

 

Also, anno sets don't actually carry info. for anything per se.  They are nothing more than a way to organize your various active defaults.  This particular area seems to be very misunderstood by a lot of people.  For this reason I actually kinda think Annotation Sets could be renamed to "Annotation Settings" or "Annotation Defaults".  As it is now, the name seems to carry the idea that annotation sets are something like layer sets which really isn't accurate at all.  When you activate an annotation set it simply changes the following:

1. Your Current CAD Layer (the layer you want to draw any new CAD work on).
2. Your active Dimension Defaults (the dimensions settings you would like to use for any new dimensions)
3. Your active Rich Text and Text Defaults (the text settings you would like to use for any new text)
4. Your active Callout Defaults (the callout settings you would like to use for any new callouts)
5. Your active Marker Defaults (the marker settings you would like to use for any new markers)
6. Your active Arrow Defaults (the arrow settings you would like to use for any new arrows)
7. OPTIONALLY your active Layer Set.

 

That last one is I believe the cause of a lot of confusion.  Your layer sets are really what is responsible for storing and displaying all the various information you want to display.  Annotation Sets can optionally just act as a sort of switch to activate the layer set.  

 

Anyway,  I just wanted to clarify that its not anno sets that hold any of that information.  The LAYOUT VIEW actually holds more info than anything including:

1. The current Layer Set being used in that view
2. The current Floor being used in that view.
3. The current Annotation Set (or Active Defaults if an annotation set is not being used).
4. The current Reference Floor (if one is being used)
5. The current Reference Layer Set (if applicable)

 

After the layout view its the layer set settings that are most responsible for "remembering" and displaying plan info. in layout including which dimensions, text objects, callouts, markers, and arrows are to be displayed (based on their layers and the related layer settings).

[Joe_Carrick]

Michael,

 

You missed a couple of important details about the Layout View (technically the Layout Box):

• It knows the name and location of the Plan from whence it came. (link to Plan)
• It knows what view it came from (direct access to that view)
• It knows what its scale is. (can be modified in the Layout)
• It knows if it should be using the Layer Set in the Plan or a copy of the Layer Set as sent to Layout (control of changes)

These are all very important characteristics.  IAE, the relationship between the Layout and the Plan is fairly complex.

[dshall]

13 hours ago, michaelgia said:

........

(I would be forever in your debt. Supper and drinks)

Assuming we bump into each other at a Chief event or if you're ever in Montreal. 

 

cheers!

 

Can you believe it,  he offered me supper,  not dinner.  My Mom is English,  we eat supper at her house,  everywhere else in the  USA we eat dinner.  I hope you are  FRENCH/Canadian,  if so,  I would be that supper would be awesome.  I hope to take you up on your offer sometime in the future.

 

Here is my take on the  SAM:

 

PART 1

PART 2 

PART 3

 

This is stuff I originally did about 9 years ago,  but it still holds up.  

[HumbleChief]

I remember giving the SAM method (which I think is very, very good) a serious college try but just couldn't find a way to keep things straight in my mind. I think I just had too many jobs going at once and couldn't figure out how/when to save as what/where but really can't remember why I chose not to pursue it further. The potential is definitely there for someone who can work that way. It just wasn't for me. Templates aren't perfect either but they are an option if they fit your work flow and they seem to be better suited to the way I work.

 

Curious Scott, are you still using your SAM method in the same way or have you changed it up a bit? Watching the video it seems like these videos were just done? True? Either way very nice and thanks for your time.

 

Just watched video 1 all the videos and if anyone has an existing plan/layout that they need to duplicate or even modify slightly then using 'save as' would be the only method that makes sense. One would never start again with fresh template and draw the entire plan over again.

 

So for your work flow, which I assume is mostly remodels, 2 plans, demo (or what some call as built) and floor plan (which some would call the proposed plan) true?

[HumbleChief]

11 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I think this statement is a little misleading.  Everything does not live in the plan file.  The question was whether to place notations in layout or in the plan file itself. 

 

If you place all your view specific notations in the plan file as I believe most of us would suggest, then yes...all the notations live in the plan.  If however you place notations directly into the layout then no, those do NOT live in the plan file.  They live only in the layout.  I think there might be legitimate reasons to do this from time to time, but there aren't many of those instances.

This is accurate. EVERYTHING does not live in the plan file. You have to learn what is most efficient for your style of plan development and where the information should be stored. I have lots of boiler plate that is stored on the Layout pages and lots of notes that are stored in the plan files. No single best way and lots of options.

[mrscott]

2 hours ago, dshall said:

 

Can you believe it,  he offered me supper,  not dinner.  My Mom is English,  we eat supper at her house,  everywhere else in the  USA we eat dinner.  I hope you are  FRENCH/Canadian,  if so,  I would be that supper would be awesome.  I hope to take you up on your offer sometime in the future.

 

Here is my take on the  SAM:

 

PART 1

PART 2 

PART 3

 

This is stuff I originally did about 9 years ago,  but it still holds up.  

 

Dude! You rock! 

I get a real kick out of watching you get bobble in your own world but that 's part of your charm as well as the complexity of Chief. With that said, I believe your method is far superior to anything else I have seen used or demonstrated thus far. Not to take away from those who have contributed, as all is appreciated.

 

I would like to see Dede at Chief do a  "Start to Finish" video series using this method for those who enjoy, or simply need, more detail to grasp a concept. 

 

 

BTW,  "Auto Refresh All" is at the top of your Layout Tool Bar. 

 

Many Thanks from Houston where Crawfish ettouffe' is on the menu for Supper tonight. C'est Bon!

 

 

 

[Richard_Morrison]

The one caveat about all this is that occasionally the SAM method going across versions can cause problems. Usually, it's fine, but I have had at least one instance where layers were renamed by Chief during a version change, and one layer became completely inaccessible. Also, you may find yourself with material references that need to be updated. Maybe Chief is storing everything in the plan now (I don't know), but I've had materials in an older plan referencing an X4 file, say, and need to be individually updated. 

[dshall]

11 minutes ago, Richard_Morrison said:

The one caveat about all this is that occasionally the SAM method going across versions can cause problems.......

 

Richard,  it is Interesting you should say this. There was one time that something happened....  on on particular job....... I was so upset  I  kicked a hole in the wall and then  ignored it and somehow things worked out.

 

I am not sure if I was able to attribute the problem to the SAM.

 

I would not be surprised if my latest plans origination was from a plan I worked on 8 years ago.....  the original SAM template.   I know CA says not to do it, but I did and I have and I continue to use it.  One day I may start from scratch.