ACADuser

Framing a roof over?

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The attached plan has an existing truss roof that I am attempting to add a conventionally framed addition with open rafters.

CA will frame the main part but will not frame the roof over.

When I manually replicate rafters over the existing trusses the frame through the trusses.

I added a Truss plane but no luck. If I trim to the valley boards CA added the tails penetrate the roof plane.

 

In a real roof over the existing roof remains and the rafters die into a 2x6 laid flat on the existing plywood.

http://homebuildingaddition.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/IMG_0028.jpeg

 

Can this be done?

Lefeber Addition.plan

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did you use the truss base, look it up.

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That's not correct, I notice last 4 jack rafters lay flat on roof plane. Can't get them to behave.

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It's code here too, we call them valley plates.

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We call it California tie-in. do it a lot here

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I've used a truss base at the area to be framed over so the conventional framing won't be deleted.

I've taken the roof planes into a new plan, generated the framing, and then copied them to the working plan.

post-62-0-90649000-1438812714_thumb.jpg

Lefeber Addition 2.plan

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We call it California tie-in. do it a lot here

We call it a California Fill.  I came from Texas,  and we had these tie-ins there,  we never called it a California Tie in back there.  I always thought it was funny that we here in California call it a California Tie In or California Fill......  as if we here in California invented this........  hmmmm,  we probably did invent this come to think of it.

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Why do I get all the hard ones?

 

Just got back & Wifie is waiting dinner.

So I'll try again in the morning.

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Thank you Bill Emery, you are a talented and kind man. ;)

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Bill E., opened your plan and grabbed roof baseline for your frame over. Took framing view and I got the 1st pic I posted. OP wanted jack rafters with a valley plate and I want to know same as OP and what we're missing for jack rafters to frame. Valley plate can be done by modifying valley bridging. TY for your time.

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post-4392-0-94900400-1438823875_thumb.jpg

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Here is a quick model of an overbuilt roof using Chief Solids.

 

Here is a pic, and a very simple plan file.  I actually had more trouble working without my default settings than doing the roof framing.  Just thought a few folks might like to kick the tires.

 

Edit:  Just noticed that I did not meet the valley plates at the top.  Long day.  BTW the framing is on layer "Framing Roof Rafter Cal Overbuild"

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Cal Overbuild - Chief Solids.plan

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I agree solids can be used, I did this with the few scraps that were laying around after I auto framed roof. Actually what OP wanted we need to show the valley plate on top of roof sheathing.

post-4392-0-10139900-1438861341_thumb.jpg

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Layers for our roof planes are NEEDED and we need to be able to LOCK roof planes independently of each other.

post-4392-0-62123900-1438862635_thumb.jpg

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I don't yet have the 3D skills to work with primitives to accomplish this.

Way too time consuming. I can convey the intent in a 2D plan & elevation views.

 

Just thought a 3D framing would be nice to include in the plans.

 

Shane, Looks like you are close to having figured it out. :)

The room needs to be conventionally framed exposed rafters for that rustic look.

I think GC will use t-111 with the decorative side facing down as the first sheeting layer on the roof & then a 1/2" plywood layer to complete the structural requirements.

I just wanted to show the framing technique for the framers & the GC.

This picture is as far as I could get.

 

Funny how a seemingly simple construction technique  required a very skilled CA operator to pull off.

 

Thanks for all the interest.

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Kinda curious why one would want to model this - at all. Too easy to add a simple detail and framing notes to cover the Cal-Fill as we call it here. Do it on almost every job. Never modeled one, never had a problem from builders/framers.

 

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I do same as above post, I was offering solutions to his OP. Most of my details are saved cad details. 100's in my inventory and if anyone needs pole barn or pole structure I have many.

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There is a video on this somewhere. I tried a couple of searches in the old forum but could not find it.

Anyone have a link or remember it?

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You can use a truss base even if you don't have trusses

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The model I posted does have the valley plates above the roof sheathing.  If a person wanted to go that far you could model the sheathing and even provide subtractions for cutaways or whatever.

 

The problem I see with the modeling approach is not so much the time to model, it is the lack of fill available in 2D views.  Chief's 3D Solids capabilities are very good, but the tools provided to work with them are way below what they should be for any serious attempt at modeling.

 

BTW  where 3D Solids modeling does shine is when you want to create a U3D file.  2D doesn't exist in that world.  You even have to model text and dims depending on the programs you use.  Funny thing is that Chief does the text and dims great when importing, it just does not have a way to create it's own 3D text or dims.

 

Unless I miss my bet, the 3D computer world is about to take a major step forward with the new Windows 10 apps being developed. 

 

Edit:

 

I recently had a project where the 2D plans where very clear that the roof sheathing was to continue under the overbuilt section in order to provide the required shear the engineer requested.  I even spoke with the framer and explained why it needed to be done this way.

 

He said something about how he already knew how to do this as I was leaving.  Myself, the engineer, and the GC just finished working out the additional shear panels required to fix the issues his method created.

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Chief just doesn't do any valley plates, automatically, the only way is to make them yourself, I would tell the builder to take a hike, if you want them, it's an extra charge to do it.

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I don't yet have the 3D skills to work with primitives to accomplish this.

Way too time consuming. I can convey the intent in a 2D plan & elevation views.

 

Just thought a 3D framing would be nice to include in the plans.

 

 

Kinda curious why one would want to model this - at all. Too easy to add a simple detail and framing notes to cover the Cal-Fill as we call it here. Do it on almost every job. Never modeled one, never had a problem from builders/framers.

 

attachicon.gifcal fill 1.png

Because this job is an exposed rafter & Beam ceiling.

How do you do an interior view without modeling the framing?

 

The portion I am struggling with is out of sight though. I just thought it would be impressive to show that framing view on the plans.

 

 

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The portion I am struggling with is out of sight though. I just thought it would be impressive to show that framing view on the plans.

That's the point I was trying to make. You can literally spend years trying impress with 3D framing or get on with your ConDocs. That is NOT intended to dis in any way the genius help you have gotten in this thread but being a beginner your frustration level can be lowered by many many notches if you know where to put your efforts and spend your valuable time. Some people like to spend their time on modeling such things. I do not. Your call, and again much gratitude for those who have posted a solution to your problem.

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The exposed rafters and beams would almost always be modeled on my jobs for 3 D presentations using P-Line solids or other methods. Hidden framing - not so much.

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