Will Somebody Help Me With This Bucking Plan?

[yusuf-333]

Take a look at this setting. One wall and two windows, one window represents the casing and the other is the window it self. First finish the whole plan by putting the window (not the casing) every place it should be including the wall framing done. Here is the magic just coppy the casing and paste on the windows using point to point move snapping center handle.

BUCK WIND .plan

[Joe_Carrick]

Here's my solution to "Buck Framed Windows" based on the way Chief works currently.  The windows in this plan have their Frames sized to emulate a 2x4 Buck, 5/8" Drywall & 1" Stucco. The Frame is inset 3" to work with the 2x8 stud wall I'm using.  Those values can be changed to match whatever your conditions are.

Buck_Framed_Windows1.plan

[dshall]

Take a look at this setting. One wall and two windows, one window represents the casing and the other is the window it self. First finish the whole plan by putting the window (not the casing) every place it should be including the wall framing done. Here is the magic just coppy the casing and paste on the windows using point to point move snapping center handle.

Yusuf,  do you think your solution is better than Perry's solution?  I do not think so. 

[dshall]

Here's my solution to "Buck Framed Windows" based on the way Chief works currently.  The windows in this plan have their Frames sized to emulate a 2x4 Buck, 5/8" Drywall & 1" Stucco. The Frame is inset 3" to work with the 2x8 stud wall I'm using.  Those values can be changed to match whatever your conditions are.

I don't understand.  I thought I was clear on what I was trying to achieve. Perry did it.  Does your solution solve the problem?

 

Joe,  I look at your solution and I am trying to figure out what you did.  Are you showing a way that does not work?  

[dshall]

Perry's solution is not perfect,  but it is the least poisonous poison.

[DRAWZILLA]

I don't think there is a perfect solution until Chief allows for this anyway.

[Joe_Carrick]

Scott,

 

I agree that without some programming work there's no "perfect" solution.  That said, the plan I posted has the following:

 

1.  3D Views (Standard & Vector) are correct

2.  Plan View shows The Window Inset - and that Inset is adjustable.

3.  Framing is correct in both Plan and Section Views

4.  Windows can be moved and resized the same as any other Window

5.  Head, Jamb and Sill Details can be used to show the "Buck Frame"

6.  Custom Label and/or Comments can note the specifics.

 

If you save the Window to the Library it's available for use any time and everything is adjustable within the Window dbx.

 

I'm, not sure exactly what else you need - other than for Chief to add a "Buck Frame" to Doors and Windows - or to the Wall_Type Definition.  I'm not sure which would be the best place for such a thing but either would probably work.  In the meantime if you really need to show the 2x4 "Buck" (there is usually only 1 but you could do 2) it can be done with a CAD Block.  I would do this with larger scale details - and my normal Schedules are already set up so that there are detail callouts.

 

I know you said that P's solution was perfect but it doesn't provide #3 & #4 in the above list and it requires another Wall_Type with a thick layer of stucco.  As I said in a previous Post, the "Buck Frame" is not a part of the "Framing".  It's a part of the Window or Door attachment Detail.  My solution keeps the Wall as one thing and the Window as another. 

[DRAWZILLA]

#4 is possible with my method, just re-size the window and wall any size you want, the casing size is the size of the offset to the wall. I think that my method is just easier to do for most people.

[dshall]

Scott,

 

I agree that without some programming work there's no "perfect" solution.  That said, the plan I posted has the following:

 

1.  3D Views (Standard & Vector) are correct

I DO NOT AGREE

2.  Plan View shows The Window Inset - and that Inset is adjustable.

I DO NOT AGREE

3.  Framing is correct in both Plan and Section Views

I DO NOT AGREE,  YOU DID NOT EVEN HAVE AUTO FRAMING TURNED ON

4.  Windows can be moved and resized the same as any other Window

YEA,  BUT NOTHING ELSE WORKS

5.  Head, Jamb and Sill Details can be used to show the "Buck Frame"

I DO NOT AGREE,  AGAIN YOU DID NOT HAVE FRAMING TURNED ON

6.  Custom Label and/or Comments can note the specifics.

SO CAN PERRY'S SOLUTION

 

If you save the Window to the Library it's available for use any time and everything is adjustable within the Window dbx.

I JUST DON'T GET THIS,  I NEVER SAVE A WINDOW TO THE LIBRARY,  WHY,  IT WOULD TAKE MORE TIME TO FIND IT THAN TO BUILD ANOTHER

 

 

I'm, not sure exactly what else you need - other than for Chief to add a "Buck Frame" to Doors and Windows - or to the Wall_Type Definition.  I'm not sure which would be the best place for such a thing but either would probably work.  In the meantime if you really need to show the 2x4 "Buck" (there is usually only 1 but you could do 2) it can be done with a CAD Block.  I would do this with larger scale details - and my normal Schedules are already set up so that there are detail callouts.

 

I know you said that P's solution was perfect  I DID NOT SAY IT WAS PERFECT but it doesn't provide #3 & #4 in the above list and it requires another Wall_Type with a thick layer of stucco.  As I said in a previous Post, the "Buck Frame" is not a part of the "Framing".  It's a part of the Window or Door attachment Detail.  My solution keeps the Wall as one thing and the Window as another. 

 

 

Joe,  I must of been looking at the wrong plan because nothing in your plan comes close to what I am trying to do.

See pics....  no buck at framing and no stucco buck...

[Joe_Carrick]

Perry,

 

Ca you just select the Window and use it's handles to move it or resize it?  Can you select the window and open it and change the width to more than the width of the wall it's located in?  For me those are very important - and I believe were a part of Scott's original wants.

[dshall]

Joe,  what you are missing is the stucco return between the buck and the blue window frame  ,  see the dark brown stucco,  that is what you are missing.

[Joe_Carrick]

Scott,

 

I don't understand your I DO NOT AGREE replies.

If auto Framing is turned on the framing adjusts with the Window when they are moved or resized.

 

If you are simply insisting that the "Buck Frame" show as a part of the wall framing then:

 

1.  You don't really understand that it's not a part of framing - it's a part of the window attachment.

2.  Normally this is done with Concrete or Masonry wall construction where there is not "Framing"

3.  My statement of Item #5 was not to indicate that the "Buck Frame" was a part of framing - automatic or otherwise.

4.  Beyond this - I GIVE UP.

[builtright3]

I like Perry's method

 

Seems to me that it makes sense to do whatever looks best in all the views with out the framing because when it comes down to it the framing is in the details that can be made the way you want them.

[Joe_Carrick]

Joe, what you are missing is the stucco return between the buck and the blue window frame , see the dark brown stucco, that is what you are missing.

That is not how "Buck" details are usually done. The normal detail is for the Buck Frame to be just large enough to allow the window to be installed and trimmed. I've done a lot of Spanish Style homes and the Window trim always covers the "Buck".

 

Maybe the problem here is that you don't understand what a Buck Frame is.  It's not the inset, it's a secondary rough window frame attached inside the framed opening in the wall.  If done properly there would be no stucco between the Window Frame and the stucco recess.

I also just looked at my copy of the "Lillian J Rice" book. She was one of the original Architects for Rancho Santa Fe and all the pics in that book show the same thing as I said above. If you want to do it differently that's OK - but it's not the normal way it's done.

[DRAWZILLA]

Perry,

 

Ca you just select the Window and use it's handles to move it or resize it?  Can you select the window and open it and change the width to more than the width of the wall it's located in?  For me those are very important - and I believe were a part of Scott's original wants.

No, you must resize the wall it on also but very simple to do.

[dshall]

That is not how "Buck" details are usually done. The normal detail is for the Buck Frame to be just large enough to allow the window to be installed and trimmed. I've done a lot of Spanish Style homes and the Window trim always covers the "Buck".

 

.......

 

Joe,  that is a valid argument,  but that is not what my contractor is doing.  Every couple of weeks he writes me a check so I have decided to do what he wants me to do.

[Joe_Carrick]

Joe,  that is a valid argument,  but that is not what my contractor is doing.  Every couple of weeks he writes me a check so I have decided to do what he wants me to do.

OK.  I understand that reason.  I don't know if there's a reasonable way to get the "Stucco" to show the way he want's it but I suspect a simple symbol could be devised to partially cover the Window Frame - maybe even with a 2D Block to serve as the Buck Frame.  I will look into that - right now I'm going to watch the Players Championship.

[yusuf-333]

Yusuf,  do you think your solution is better than Perry's solution?  I do not think so.

Sure! It seems you don't want to understand, I can't say Scott is unable to understand, it seems Joe has taken the inset idea from my one. I mean Joe has understood it and will make it some more clear what i wanted to say by your English.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Here's another take on this "BUCKING" challenge. Why not use a casing? See attached pics.

 

These standard windows are placed in a regular wall, framing can be set to any depth, exterior stucco finish can be set to any thickness. Windows are adjusted by the DBX for desired inset into wall. I have used a casing/molding to create the stucco return from the exterior surface to the window along with the vertical lip. Depth of casing into the recess and buck width can be adjusted in window casing DBX. Window including cased buck can be relocated and resized same as any window. The casing will cover any exposed materials if the window is recessed beyond the exterior finish depth.

 

This eliminates the need to build two facing walls, one for the window and then one with a pass-through. Details are not restricted to just a simple recess return as can be seen in the 2nd pic which shows the casing both recessed into the wall cavity and protruding from the wall face. This may not be the perfect solution as there are always some limitations but it is somewhat unique and could be used in many other ways.

 

How was this done and how does it work? Please keep in mind that it is just a casing/molding.

 

Will post plan with details later once I clean things up and add notes.

 

Graham

 

[glennw]

Graham,

 

I believe that Scott is looking for something like this, or at least a variation of this - maybe different framing configuration?

Note that there are 2 different wall thicknesses.

[TheKitchenAbode]

GlennW

 

That is one of the techniques that has been thoroughly debated along with building a single framed width wall with a pass-through opening and then placing another slimmer wall section into  the opening for the window. Though these work there appears to be two major issues. The method of construction, especially in the double wall approach is not the most practical or efficient. The other drawback with both methods is the amount of work involved to execute changes, not so bad if it is only one window that needs to be altered but what if many windows need to be shifted. With normal windows you simply drag and resize the window. Both of the proposed methods require framing adjustments, not just window adjustments.

 

The teaser I'm suggesting is window only based, no need to adjust framing whatsoever. Drag, drop, resize exactly the same as one already does. Can be done on any window.

 

Will try to post plan by end of day.

 

Graham

[glennw]

Graham,

 

I think you misread my post.

I wasn't suggesting a technique to achieve what Scott may want.

I was only posting a picture to indicate what I think he wants the final result to be.

I will be interested to see what you propose and even more interested to see Scott's comments.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Graham,

 

I will be interested to see what you propose and even more interested to see Scott's comments.

 

It's the latter part of this statement that I fear the most.

 

Graham

[DRAWZILLA]

Here's another take on this "BUCKING" challenge. Why not use a casing? See attached pics.

 

These standard windows are placed in a regular wall, framing can be set to any depth, exterior stucco finish can be set to any thickness. Windows are adjusted by the DBX for desired inset into wall. I have used a casing/molding to create the stucco return from the exterior surface to the window along with the vertical lip. Depth of casing into the recess and buck width can be adjusted in window casing DBX. Window including cased buck can be relocated and resized same as any window. The casing will cover any exposed materials if the window is recessed beyond the exterior finish depth.

 

This eliminates the need to build two facing walls, one for the window and then one with a pass-through. Details are not restricted to just a simple recess return as can be seen in the 2nd pic which shows the casing both recessed into the wall cavity and protruding from the wall face. This may not be the perfect solution as there are always some limitations but it is somewhat unique and could be used in many other ways.

 

How was this done and how does it work? Please keep in mind that it is just a casing/molding.

 

Will post plan with details later once I clean things up and add notes.

 

Graham

That's what I did in an earlier post, used the casings.

[yusuf-333]

It's the latter part of this statement that I fear the most.

Graham

It's the latter part of this statement that I fear the most.

Graham

Graham, until you fear that fear it self, you are not going to effectively benefit the best of the talent inside you. Please keep up the nice work. I am trying to learn what you proposed.