Can't get rid of 1/16" added to dimension trouble

[tsoftwerks]

Hello, I have been battling with tweaking dimensions on my plans, and seem to have introduced a glitch.  I want the garage Y dimensions to be even to the 1/2", but when i manually enter them they always add 1/16th.  Just seems to be for my garage for some reason, I know it is lower than main floor, not sure if that has something to do with it. Please take a look at the attached plan.  Thanks!

BenRuby Rd Monopoly.plan

Ruby Rd Monopoly.plan

[Garybills]

Check your Plan Dimensions Defaults, Primary Format, Smallest Fraction. Changing it to 1/8" will fix your dimensions in the garage. 

[mtldesigns]

54 minutes ago, Garybills said:

Changing it to 1/8"

As true as this is, if the wall is exactly at 24' 8 1/2", it would dimension that no matter the format.  There's something else going on here. 

[Garybills]

9 minutes ago, solver said:

Place a point at 0, 0. Use Edit Area (All Floors) to select, then Point to Point a corner (exterior main layer) of the structure to that point.

 

Well, you learn something new every day.

[mtldesigns]

Yep.  I brought this into another blank model and it worked as it was supposed to..  never dawned on me it came at 0,0.  

 

@solver  Curious, why did this being at 0,0 make the difference when the distance was true?

[DBCooper]

I think this has to do with the way Chief rounds its dimensions and whether you are using "grid rounding" or "distance rounding" (you can find these in your dimension defaults).  Changing your dimension defaults to use "distance rounding" will also fix the problem but Chief doesn't recommend this because sometimes your intermediate dimensions will not add up to the total dimension.  Chief also recommends that when you are using "grid rounding" that you always draw your plan with grid snaps on.  

 

I think that the reason your wall dimension does not show the correct value is because your walls were not drawn starting on the grid.  Moving the wall corner to the origin will then put your wall on the grid solving the problem.

 

I have also seen lots of dimension problems happen when the walls are not really at the values that the dimension is showing.  One easy way to tell that this is happening is when you click on the dimension and you see something like "24.005" instead of "24".  This was the first thing I looked for when I opened your plan but your dimensions look accurate.

 

BTW, there are lots of ways to hide these kinds of problems, such as changing your dimensions to round to the nearest 1/2" instead of the nearest 1/16" or even just overriding the dimension value.  Doing things like this can actually hide problems in your plan that can cause other problems later (which is probably why someone downvoted Gary's suggestion).  Personally, I have used all kinds of "not recommended" solutions back in the day when I needed to get plans out.  Do whatever you need to do because it's your name going on the plans, not Chief's.

 

[mtldesigns]

7 hours ago, DBCooper said:

which is probably why someone downvoted Gary's suggestion

@Garybills  BTW Gary, I did NOT downvote you, I never do.  We are to lift one another and learn, like I learned myself with this issue.  I actually have my defaults at 1/8" myself (like you mentioned to do), but when I saw the distance was true, but the dim wasn't..  I knew it was more than a tolerance thing.

 

8 hours ago, DBCooper said:

not drawn starting on the grid

Not a fan of the grid, but that is my preference.  

 

8 hours ago, DBCooper said:

using "grid rounding" or "distance rounding" (you can find these in your dimension defaults)

Like Gary stated, you learn something everyday.

[para-CAD]

Why does locating the model closer to 0,0 matter?

If it's coordinate geometry each point has a unique address out as far as you take it.

[DBCooper]

Being far away from 0,0 causes all sorts of weird problems.

 

It's not really necessary to move the wall corner to 0,0 in this case because it is not far away from 0,0.  You could also move it to 10,10 or 100,100.  The important part is that you are moving it back to the drawing grid which fixes the problem with "grid rounding".

 

 

 

[tsoftwerks]

Thanks @solver!

[Kbird1]

4 hours ago, DBCooper said:

Being far away from 0,0 causes all sorts of weird problems.

 

This is true and can cause Z-fighting in Materials particularly in Over views......

 

I think for the drawing to NOT be on the Grid in the 1st place may indicate possibly the OP has Snaps turned OFF in their Plan .

 

M.  

[Chrisb222]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:23 PM, mtldesigns said:

As true as this is, if the wall is exactly at 24' 8 1/2", it would dimension that no matter the format.  There's something else going on here. 

 

Yes there is something else going on where the software is displaying something other than the desired and ACTUAL dimension value. Just to clarify and add more information as to what's happening and how to prevent it:

 

On 12/24/2023 at 2:41 PM, tsoftwerks said:

I want the garage Y dimensions to be even to the 1/2", but when i manually enter them they always add 1/16th.

 

On 12/25/2023 at 2:53 PM, DBCooper said:

I think that the reason your wall dimension does not show the correct value is because your walls were not drawn starting on the grid.

 

DB Cooper is correct, but just to expand on his explanation... When you use Grid Rounding, the software will ALWAYS make your dimension strings consistent across the segments. In other words, all of your dimension string value totals will match. If you have multiple dimension strings all referencing different points in the same area, like this quick example:

 

...the sum of all the strings will ALWAYS be equal.

 

The program uses a behind-the-scenes rounding grid to accomplish this consistency, based on your Smallest Fraction (or number of Decimal Places) setting in the Dimension Line Specification. If you're using Grid Rounding, but don't draw using Grid Snaps, actual distances between objects may be rounded oddly in order to make the displayed dimensions all result in the same total distance.

 

When you draw with Grid Snaps off, you place walls and objects in random locations to the tens or hundreds of thousandths. Say you place two parallel walls with Grid Snaps off. They may be 24' 8.52198701889" apart. But you want your dimension strings to ROUND to the nearest 1/8". So now the software must adjust the DISPLAYED dimensions to force them to round AND to add up to equal values, to prevent inconsistencies in your various dimension strings, which would cause errors in your plans.

 

This rounding grid aligns with the Snap Grid, which aligns with the Origin, so even though you may have your walls exactly 24' 8.5" apart, if they are off the grid by a few thousandths, and you're using Grid Rounding, the program must adjust something somewhere in order to produce consistent totals across the segments. This may result in your exact 24' 8.5" dimension changing to 24' 8 5/8". You are asking the program to ROUND ALL your dimensions, so even though this dimension doesn't require rounding, something has to give somewhere.

 

If you draw with Grid Snaps on, you won't encounter the program introducing an undesired rounding result because your drawn objects will be placed precisely on the rounding grid, and will already be in sync with your accuracy settings. That's why Eric's solution "worked" - because it realigned the drawing with the rounding grid.

 

It doesn't matter where on the origin you draw (although yes, closer to 0,0 is better). What matters is that you draw on the grid so that the software won't have to introduce weird results to make all the string totals match.

 

Hope this helps explain what's going on under the hood... 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

If you draw with Grid Snaps on, you won't encounter the program introducing an undesired rounding result because your drawn objects will be placed precisely on the rounding grid, and will already be in sync with your accuracy settings. That's why Eric's solution "worked" - because it realigned the drawing with the rounding grid.

 

So you agree then ? 

 

18 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

I think for the drawing to NOT be on the Grid in the 1st place may indicate possibly the OP has Snaps turned OFF in their Plan .

 

M.  

 

  .nice explanation of the System Chief Uses , The MODs should make your post a "Sticky" in the Tips Forum......

 

 

M.

[mtldesigns]

7 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Hope this helps explain what's going on under the hood

 

 

7 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

They may be 24' 8.52198701889" apart.

It explains it, and makes sense..  but I AM so anal and OCD and have a machinery design background (Autodesk Inventor), the 24' 8.52198701889" would absolutely drive me crazy (unless tolerance wise that is what it is supposed to be)..  lol.  That would be a nice 24' 8.5000000000" even.  And that's probably why I hadn't seen this issues before, because even though I use snaps my grid is turned off.   And most homes are not right at 0,0 either if I was to check.  

 

 

 

[Garybills]

On 12/25/2023 at 10:59 PM, mtldesigns said:

@Garybills  BTW Gary, I did NOT downvote you, I never do.  We are to lift one another and learn, like I learned myself with this issue.  I actually have my defaults at 1/8" myself (like you mentioned to do), but when I saw the distance was true, but the dim wasn't..  I knew it was more than a tolerance thing.

 

Not a fan of the grid, but that is my preference.  

 

Like Gary stated, you learn something everyday.

Thanks Michael, I do learn a lot from the replies on here and as far as down vote it doesn't bother me because I've been married 45 years and most of my suggestions get down voted LOL. I hope everyone had a good Christmas and has a Happy New Year!!!!!