Need advice on rates to charge for creating models

[NewbieMichael]

I am a journeyman carpenter working with local architects to provide models from their CAD plans.  Any input on what the going rates are for this service.  I'm not producing final plans, just detailed models to provide the architect, clients, and contractors.  I am in Vancouver area of BC.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Here are some links to view the models

https://3d-viewer.chiefarchitect.com/go?share=195717213452493

framing

https://3d-viewer.chiefarchitect.com/go?share=612045577701430

Landale home

https://3d-viewer.chiefarchitect.com/go?share=542944223131091

 

 

[GeneDavis]

Have you asked your clients, the architects, what they think it's worth?

[SHCanada2]

to me it is all about the detail. if they want to change/select colours, furniture, add wall paintings, blinds, choose floor colours, cabinet type, where there are drawers, etc... that is where the time is spent

 

although in your case the roof planes might take some time too

 

[mtldesigns]

22 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

although in your case the roof planes might take some time too

I agree, and it looks like Vancouver Canada doesn't have flat land either.  

 

But Jason is right in regards the "Staging" stuff, that can take a lot of time.  Will you be just be supplying 3D viewer link for them to share, or will you be part of a design review where clients can make comments and you make changes in real time?  For example, picking multiple countertop materials until the Mrs. is happy or moving walls and openings so the Mr. is happy with a view of a football game from every corner of the house. (Both have happen to me is why I ask)

 

In any case, I charge a flat fee for just the house model, anything else (staging and/or design review meetings) is hourly.  I don't know the rate up there to give you a dollar amount. 

[NewbieMichael]

Thank you for taking the time to reply,

 

At this stage of the game I'm just supplying a 3D model to start  and if I am involved with the clients to make changes then will move to an hourly rate.  I intend to charge a flat fee for the modelling service so am curious for example what you might charge in your area as a flat fee for the 3 level house with loft above garage?  And an appropriate hourly rate to work with the clients doing real time changes and material applying.  

 

In my eyes the value is there in creating a 3D model as it becomes the centralized source of information between clients, architects, designers and contractors not to mention all the hours saved and problems solved ahead of time.  Since this is my first job, I am looking for guidance to set an appropriate amount.

 

 

[GeneDavis]

@NewbieMichaelYou showed examples, which are fully-completed Chief models of complex houses and on complex terrain.  And furnished with furniture and accessories.  Each one a fairly large piece of work.

 

Are your clients architects that have no 3D software?  Old-school 2D CAD?  Or even older-school paper and pencil?

[SHCanada2]

I will quote every job depending on the complexity. As you have the plans this might take as little as 4 hours to recreate for a simple box which has no porch deck or ext detailing. I will typically estimate what I think it will take and double it. That is the fixed price. 

 

But again it is in the details. If they want 3d camera shots that takes time. 

[NewbieMichael]

My first client is an Architect using 2D CAD. I import the DWG plan views and sections to start model process. Both homes are pretty complex and with my current level of experience took me a while to model.    

[SHCanada2]

If you do not already you might want to also give them the CA viewer, and create RTRT cameras. I do rtrt camera all the time now, and once you learn the 4 or 5 settings to change, they make a world of aesthetic difference.

 

Just know that if you do give them the CA viewer, you also have to give them the plan to view, and they could take that plan and use it for themselves

 

[robdyck]

17 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

I will quote every job depending on the complexity. I will typically estimate what I think it will take and double it. That is the fixed price.

Ditto. This is exactly how I approach it as well. 

[DeLayDesign]

I've done it a few ways.

1) Decide what your time is worth (example $100/ hour), then review their request and using projects you worked on in the past create an 'estimate' of time.  20 hours = $2,000  Don't forget a little fluff.

2) Create a retainer system for your clients.  Explain to them that you 'think' it'll be 'x' amount of hours; but will start the work for a specific amount; let's say $500 to start the work..  When the $500 has been used up based on your value of time (again $100/hour or w.e.).  Allow the client to see your progress and request additional funds to complete the work.  I use this method a lot for new clients.

[NewbieMichael]

Thanks for the advice on the Ray trace cameras, will look into that.  I intend on estimating my time (and doubling that time seems like good advice) for projects going forward.  I took way too long on these jobs as was using the jobs to learn the software. Once competent and efficient with the software I would estimate that the house with the roof top deck to current stage of model including supplying viewing options might be in the area of 30 hours but that's really a guess without having much experience. 

 

Does 30 hours sound reasonable on the roof top deck home for someone who is efficient with Chief (charging out at $100 per hour for example)  

 

 

[robdyck]

9 hours ago, NewbieMichael said:

Does 30 hours sound reasonable on the roof top deck home for someone who is efficient with Chief (charging out at $100 per hour for example)  

Yes it does, however you can really help yourself out by changing the default camera settings. With virtually no effort, you can greatly improve the appearance which will affect the perceived value to your client. Here's an example of something I produce for clients regularly. This is my most basic level offered and is very inexpensive.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrEhPk3Pe1E/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[SHCanada2]

ditto rob, but if they want to play around with a RTRT model, they will need the viewer. You cannot export it to CA's cloud.

 

I dont give customers the nice flowers and trees that Rob does, but his are much prettier

[robdyck]

17 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

but if they want to play around with a RTRT model, they will need the viewer.

FWIW I would NEVER give out a file for use with the viewer! Never have, never will. This puts way too much information into the wrong hands!

This conversation inevitably leads to the need for visual improvements to the online 3d Viewer.

[SHCanada2]

2 hours ago, robdyck said:

This conversation inevitably leads to the need for visual improvements to the online 3d Viewer.

If I had a partnership with another company I would have no issues giving out the file.

 

That being said, if CA could export an encoded CA file, and then the viewer decoded it into memory, that would also work.

 

The problem with the cloud is it would have to RTRT every time the camera moved around, and CA would need to purchase HW to support that

[HumbleChief]

Your decision on your rates and end costs for a customer will not be based on your hourly rate and the time it takes to create a model but rather on what the market will bear. If it takes you 30 hours at $100/hour and you charge $3000 for a 3D model will someone pay that? If so then you've defined a market willing to pay you for your time.

 

What if the market will only bear $1500? Then what? If you can polish your skills enough to get the job done in 15 hours then you are golden. If you can only get $1500 and it still takes you 30 hours then two things. First you have to be willing to accept $50/hour (until your skills improve) or second you might be in the wrong business.

[NewbieMichael]

Thanks guys, the architect was happy with the fee I placed on the model so going forward have a better sense on what to charge.  It is pretty easy to get lost in the details which swallows up time but that will come with experience

[SHCanada2]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:55 PM, NewbieMichael said:

Does 30 hours sound reasonable on the roof top deck home for someone who is efficient with Chief (charging out at $100 per hour for example)  

to answer this question, I charge a surcharge for non flat lots. Fiddling with the terrain and the stepped foundation takes time, especially if the customer doesnt like the terrain, or you have to put in a wingwall because its not actually sloped that much. and then if they change the footprint you get to do it all again.

 

Non flat=headache