Kitchen electrical must read


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1 hour ago, Gawdzira said:

NEC code 2023 calls for island outlet changes. No more outlets below the countertop level!

Keeping in mind that they no longer require an outlet at all which is a BIG deal for post-tension and/or radiant floor remodels

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46 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Keeping in mind that they no longer require an outlet at all which is a BIG deal for post-tension and/or radiant floor remodels

I am not reading it that way. This is not an either/or. It is a yes but choose 1,2 or 3 and 3 still needs a power line run for future.

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1 hour ago, CharlesVolz said:

Crazy...

 

Thanks Alan!

 

So kids will tripping over longer extension cords with mixers, blenders, etc. raining down on them.

 

My thoughts exactly.  Thank you Alan...Also, this is dumb.  They're just opening up the door to a worse problem OR the homeowner or someone else is just going to come along after the main project is done and install an outlet on the side of the cabinet just like we've always done...or install an outlet inside the cabinet and use an aftermarket product of some sort to extend it out from there in an even less appropriate fashion. 

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I think the intention is to seek more top surface/pop up outlets to be installed instead of the outlets on the end of the peninsula or island. But, the way this is written is setting up a lack of island and peninsula outlets. I can agree that the face of the cabinet end or face of the cabinet (like in a pilaster type design placement) is not ideal for where the cord becomes an obstacle is not ideal but eliminating them is certainly creating a situation where we might see an extension cord run to power up a mixer or some other small appliance.

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For jurisdictions that have adopted the International Residential Code (IRC) — at least up through the ‘21 edition — the IRC still requires any countertop over 12” in width to have at least one receptacle, which means that an island is required to have at least one. Any requirement for additional receptacles is established by the typical determinations (24” from an edge/corner, etc).  Receptacle type, capacity, and  “placement” within the IRC requirement must adhere to the NEC rules, except that the IRC also disallows a receptacle to be underneath any countertop protrusion over 6”, which screws up my typical preference for making two of then readily available yet still out of sight by tucking them just under the countertop on the pilasters supporting the island’s dining ledge.  No telling what will be in the ‘24 edition of the IRC, but that’s the way it is for now. 

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2 hours ago, Gawdzira said:

I am not reading it that way. This is not an either/or. It is a yes but choose 1,2 or 3 and 3 still needs a power line run for future.

I think their has been a revision since I first researched it, there was no clause for ITTT.  J-box it is.wonder if this will be like some of the other radical changes of past when mfr’s couldn’t get their product to meet listings in time for the code interpretations to take effect 

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14 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

wonder if this will be like some of the other radical changes of past when mfr’s couldn’t get their product to meet listings in time for the code interpretations to take effect 

 

Or like some of the others where many jurisdictions just amend it right out. 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, KTransue said:

For jurisdictions that have adopted the International Residential Code (IRC) — at least up through the ‘21 edition — the IRC still requires any countertop over 12” in width to have at least one receptacle

 

I think it will be particularly problematic for the many jurisdictions where electrical requirements are only inspected/enforced by the electrical inspector and where the electrical inspectors are only referencing the NEC.

 

 

Anyway, I'm normally pretty easy going and just adjust to these changes.  This one really kinda sucks though.  One of the greatest things about islands is having a large, open, and completely smooth working surface.  introducing a popup outlet really has a negative affect on all but the largest of islands. 

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2 minutes ago, ACADuser said:

My point is how water resistant are they.

Spilling liquids like soup into the cracks & crevices will create a cleaning nightmare.

They are sealed units.  When closed (pushed down) nothing gets in.  That's even better than Garbage Disposal Switches.

 

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28 minutes ago, ACADuser said:

Are they sealed when in the up position?

Crock-pot on the counter & the ladle gets out of control.

 

Alan,

It seems you're just looking for trouble.  In most cases the outlet would be placed near the center of the island some distance from the "out of control ladle".  :rolleyes:

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11 minutes ago, Gawdzira said:

The thing to check when you spec these is how deep they are so you need to reserve that space.

Yep, Some require a 5" diameter x 8" deep space.  That could mean either no drawer or a short drawer so the unit could be behind the drawer.

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Countertop obstacles, aesthetics, and convenience aside, let's put this in perspective, just for grins ... The driving motivation for this code change was the CPSC's concern for safety in the kitchen (just the kitchen, mind you ... As it turns out, there are plenty of accessible receptacles in other parts of the home) ... 

  • Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) data shows that between 1991 and 2020, an estimated 9,700 people, many of them children, were treated in United States emergency rooms for burns and other injuries after pulling on or running into power cords plugged into outlets installed below the island /peninsula work surfaces. 

So, of the 137,400,000 housing units in the United States, 9,700 people -- "many of them children" (so we can assume that it wasn't "most of them" -- hurt themselves by misusing common electrical receptacles.  Assuming half of that number were children (4850), that's .004% -- or four thousandths of one percent -- had problems keeping their children away from the kitchen island electrical outlets.  "Stop it, Junior!  Get away from the island and go stick that in the outlet by the table!"  Yeah, that seems like a good reason to inconvenience the entire rest of the country ...

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21 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Alan,

It seems you're just looking for trouble.  In most cases the outlet would be placed near the center of the island some distance from the "out of control ladle".  :rolleyes:

Yes I was stirring the pot.  B)

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Kevin......"So, of the 137,400,000 housing units in the United States, 9,700 people -- "many of them children" (so we can assume that it wasn't "most of them" -- hurt themselves by misusing common electrical receptacles.  Assuming half of that number were children (4850), that's .004% -- or four thousandths of one percent "

 

You forgot to divide that ".004%" over a 30 year period!  :mellow:

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3 hours ago, Larry_Sweeney said:

 

 

You forgot to divide that ".004%" over a 30 year period! 

 

That's 323 people a year or roughly 1 out of a million people.  If that seems unreasonable to you that maybe you're a heartless monster.  I do wonder however how many of those were the same people just not learning.  "Many of them children" for the first few years and then them was adults for the rest of them years. 

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