Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[Rashid_Garuba]

19 minutes ago, EdEmery12 said:

Question:

 

If I buy a new/renew SSA subscription today will that keep me from having to buy a subscription plan?

Would that qualify for updates going forward?  

I have paid thousands of dollars buying chief over the years really seems like a raw deal to make us pay $199.00 a month now.

 

Thanks,

Ed Emery

 

Until January 10th NOTHING changes.. Buy all the new Licenses you wish w/ $595 SSA before that date.. it's why they may get a bump in sales before then..

[EdEmery12]

I am aware.

 

Thanks

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, EdEmery12 said:

If I buy a new/renew SSA subscription today will that keep me from having to buy a subscription plan?

Would that qualify for updates going forward? 

 

Currently, as far as I know ( call and confirm) nothing has changed yet, so if you do your SSA or upgrade to X14 now ( no forum sig . so no idea what you are on) your Perpetual License will continue as per before *** as long as you pay SSA EVERY year after Jan. 9th 2023.

 

* There has never been any gain for the End User NOT to purchase SSA every year, as it costs more to Upgrade to the latest version, than to pay the yearly SSA "Maintenance Fee" , and of course you don't benefit from any improvements either.

 

M.

[Joe_Carrick]

1 hour ago, EdEmery12 said:

Question:

 

If I buy a new/renew SSA subscription today will that keep me from having to buy a subscription plan?

Would that qualify for updates going forward?  

Yes !!!!

 

Just continue to pay the SSA fee each year and you will have the latest version.

 

You can opt out of SSA at any time in the future and have the version you had updated to at that time.

 

This should answer all the questions about the Perpetual License and SSA going forward.

[Sawtooth]

I've used CA for nearly 20 years.  I started with Version 9 I believe.  I do not like doing business with a gun to my head. This is what this feels like. Pay whatever we decide to charge for SSA or start over with a subscription service. Miss the deadline by a few days. you are outta luck.  I collaborate with other builders/architects so I do not have the option not to keep current. We all have to have the same version.

 

At nearly 50 years old, I had no intention of switching to another software. I always figured that I would use it until I retire. I am not as sure of that now. I like the software, but there are lots of good options available. Doing business this way leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[lbuttery]

you are not able to open you files any more, in X14??

 

NO, it may not work

 

the HD versions are paired with Chief Premier versions

 

so  if you went with HD PRO and then upgraded it later

none of the newer plans would open in the older HD PRO or in the "older" X14

[lbuttery]

Note: Chief licenses have NO resale value - they can NOT be offered for sale

 

as CA will not allow transfers anymore

 

if you have no use for Chief it is now GARBAGE

 

I should have been able to sell my X14 with current SSA for approx. $2,500

 

I feel screwed

 

Lew

[richoffan]

While I agree it does feel like Chief believes our hearts and minds will follow (sorry ladies) one of my concerns they did address in writing in this thread is the 30 day grace period remains. I would still like a more definitive answer on SSA pricing as we move forward but it seems Chief either can't or won't commit to anything beyond a month from now (try that s**t with your steady clients) so their lack of planning (how we got here?) is not going to cause anxiety on my part. As Ryan and Mark indicated the SSA as a percentage of gross is fairly insignificant and more its tax deductible. For those who don't use this professional software for business - its an expensive toy. So is a boat.

[Richard_Morrison]

6 minutes ago, richoffan said:

 its an expensive toy. So is a boat.

True, but you can always sell the boat.

[richoffan]

Good point

[birneyd]

4 hours ago, PlanX_Designs said:

ue, per ca

 

4 hours ago, PlanX_Designs said:

esting supp

 

4 hours ago, PlanX_Designs said:

to me, the SSA annual fee is just a discount for upgrade to the next Version.

 

my usage and actual need for SSA is 1 time in the last 2years.....making it a $1200 per issue, per case call, just to report on a bug for their software.

 

just curious, whats your usage of the SSA?   are you submitting/requesting support 1 issue per week(52 technical issues / $600 per yr = $11.53 per case?)

I think you are at the core of the issue.  The S and the SA need to be separated for CA to keep their user base.  A lot of comments here from casual users like myself who have been diligently paying the SSA but are offended by the price of the rental model.  A far better solution would be to charge a sensible fee for the SA part (i.e. development) and then work out a schedule that makes the S (support) part pay for itself.  A combination of per call, and a few call packages (i.e. 10, 50, 200) should cover the bases.  Software support is expensive, particularly for vertical market SW that, by definition, never gets tested to the degree that mass market SW does.  I have to believe that Support is a big chunk of CA's budget (maybe more than half), so cost-plus-margin based pricing makes sense.  Make the support function pay its way.  The alternative will be an eventual loss of all casual users and judging by the comment base, that may well be the majority.  One has to wonder if this change isn't just a knee jerk reaction to the housing market going in the dumper.  If so, a better choice would be to accept reality and downsize accordingly.  The market is going to be in the dumper for at least a few years.  Economic cycles (particularly forced ones) don't heal very quickly.  The announced path suggests that either CA is desperate or suddenly very greedy.  There has been no evidence of extreme greed in the past, so maybe desperate is the logical conclusion.

[Joe_Carrick]

16 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

Note: Chief licenses have NO resale value - they can NOT be offered for sale

 

as CA will not allow transfers anymore

 

if you have no use for Chief it is now GARBAGE

 

I should have been able to sell my X14 with current SSA for approx. $2,500

 

I feel screwed

 

Lew

Lew,

 

You were never able to sell your License with SSA. 

 

You were only able to sell your License with CA's approval in certain specific cases.  In those cases the purchaser was provided with the opportunity to purchase their own SSA.

 

I'm not sure you're correct about CA no longer allowing transfers.  I think that's still their option depending on the circumstances.

 

 

[Chrisb222]

6 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

I'm not sure you're correct about CA no longer allowing transfers.  I think that's still their option depending on the circumstances.

 

I think you're right. Chief Architect addressed that question earlier in the thread:

 

On 11/30/2022 at 4:34 PM, ChiefArchitect said:

On the question about reselling or transferring your software license and that entity being able to renew the SSA prior to its expiration......

The current Chief Architect End User License Agreement does not allow selling or transferring a license to another party. However, there are some special situations where a license transfer can occur if it is approved by Chief Architect.  An example might include an employee that purchases the software on behalf of a company and that license should be in that company’s name or a principle of that company.  If a license transfer is approved, and the SSA is current, then it can be renewed.

 

The policy does not seem to be changing, but I don't know that much about it, I never planned to try and sell my license. I've seen a lot of forum posts about doing it and it seems like it's a fairly common occurrence....

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, lbuttery said:

I should have been able to sell my X14 with current SSA for approx. $2,500

 

They have never allowed SSA Transfer with the License Transfer, but a Transfer of License has never been an Issue in the past ( $50 if you paid full price originally ) with the Official Transfer Form from Sales, however I have not seen any definitive answer as to whether this will still be possible after Jan. 9th 2023. 

 

So I guess it is possible that current CA PL's will be worth nothing as of next year, so shouldn't that mean all CA PL Holders get 3yrs? of SSA in lieu ?  yeah I'm sure that's not likely.....

 

Not a Fan of this decision either, so am happy I am paid up on SSA, another SW Package I have, sprung the Subscription Model on Users after their BF Sale as well, and the reaction of Users on their Forum and elsewhere is pretty much the same as here, that one I will be letting go as many others are too.

 

Mick. 

[Chrisb222]

So after doing some further reading, it seems that selling your license was a pretty straightforward thing in the past. Although the software license agreement makes it sound unlikely or rare that such a sale would be approved, posts by chief sales elsewhere on the forum, and older ads offering licenses for sale to "whoever," make it seem pretty standard that your license could be sold. 

 

I would think the question of whether that is or isn't changing would be a big deal to some people...

 

On 2/8/2022 at 3:19 PM, DerekPedersen said:

Hello,

 

Thank you for the question.  The seller will need to contact our Customer Service directly.  Customer Service will provide the seller with the necessary form and the license transfer fee.  The transfer fee varies depending on the history of the license and can range from $100 up to $900+.  The license transfer fee must be paid, and the License Transfer Form must be signed by both parties before the software license can change ownership.

 

Note that SSA is not transferrable. If you would like SSA, you would need to purchase it separately through an SSA renewal (if qualifies) or by upgrading.

 

Let us know if you have any questions.

 

Kind regards,

 

Derek 

Chief Architect Sales

 

 

The "Offering Services" forum is where ads are placed offering licenses for sale:

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/forum/16-offering-services/

 

[lbuttery]

You were never able to sell your License with SSA. 

 

I advised over the years many a buyer or seller on how to contact CA and do the transfer etc

 

I can't say for sure if it happened - but I never heard back from anyone that it couldn't be done

 

CA's transfer fee was $50 for a primary license and approx. $400 for a secondary or student license

 

many times I advised a home owner wanting to model their own home to buy Chief Premier

and then when done sell it for 70-80% of the current rate for a new license

 

CA never interjected and said that couldn't be done

I never heard anyone saying they couldn't do it

 

Many times we all saw ads on Chieftalk for someone offering their license for sale

and touting that their SSA was current

 

Lew

[lbuttery]

 I have not seen any definitive answer as to whether this will still be possible after Jan. 9th 2023

 

It is NOT possible to transfer a license NOW 

and according to CA rep I spoke to  today they haven't done it for years

 

that is not my understanding as many users have offered their license for sale on Chief Talk

and touted that their SSA was current

 

Lew

[lbuttery]

older ads offering licenses for sale to "whoever," make it seem pretty standard that your license could be sold. 

 

Chris:

 

precisely my point

 

thanks for posting CA's prior policy on selling licenses

 

now my X14 license is GARBAGE

 

Lew

[DavidJames]

... 

28 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

older ads offering licenses for sale to "whoever," make it seem pretty standard that your license could be sold. 

 

Chris:

 

precisely my point

 

thanks for posting CA's prior policy on selling licenses

 

now my X14 license is GARBAGE

 

Lew

 

I can still think of one way of being able to sell the license down the road... however it would cost a lot lol. 

[lbuttery]

I can still think of one way of being able to sell the license down the road... however it would cost a lot lol. 

 

please explain ...

 

send me an email at LBUTTERY@YAHOO.COM

 

if you can't post it here

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

3 hours ago, richoffan said:

I would still like a more definitive answer on SSA pricing as we move forward but it seems Chief either can't or won't commit to anything beyond a month from now...

Here's a pretty definitive guess on SSA pricing as we move forward - it will be more expensive in the future like it always has as inflation and other cost factors have their way with all things in business.

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, lbuttery said:

It is NOT possible to transfer a license NOW 

and according to CA rep I spoke to  today they haven't done it for years

 

that is not my understanding as many users have offered their license for sale on Chief Talk

and touted that their SSA was current

 

That must of been a new change along with the New Subscription Announcement, as it was never the Policy previously, I guess no doubt to stop a sudden surge in Transfer Sales before the deadline..... but a bit short sighted IMHO.

 

Yes, many did advertise there License with current SSA but it was never transferable, I let many know that myself, most had to drop their price by the cost of SSA is my guess, not being aware of that.

 

Your X14 license is an upgraded License Lew, you've been here longer than me, so if you sold it you wouldn't be able to access your Museum/Restoration Plans any longer,  as the license applies to ALL Version/Copies, you can't just sell X14 and keep X12 etc for use. ( having the HW Dongle for X9 maybe different? )

 

Mick.

[lbuttery]

if you sold it you wouldn't be able to access your Museum/Restoration Plans any longer

 

Mick:

 

correct

 

if I sell X14 I am suppose to transfer all prior copies or destroy them

 

however, CA has stated that I can NOT sell my X14 

 

Lew

[ValleyGuy]

My biggest concern is the uncertainty of the SSA pricing going forward. I feel held captive to two options: 1) pay the SSA price they demand to upgrade,  2) face stalling at the current version (not keeping SSA current), with a sub-option of paying an outrageous penalty in the future to become current again. Option 1 is just a money issue that I will have to weigh out, just a business decision. However, option 2 leaves a little question of how long before CA pulls the plug on the older versions rendering them no longer useable.

 

As a current licence owner and full time user (making my living using this tool), I feel that I'm in a much better place than most of the occasional users as well as anyone that 'leases' the program after the change date. Whether CA offers enough return on the investment required will definitely be a lot tougher on them. I feel for all of you in this position. 

 

Maybe I have a little different view point than some other full time users, but that may be because I am still fairly new to CA and not as 'emotionally' attached. I look at this program as a tool that I use to make a living. It isn't a nest egg investment that I'm going to use for 20 years then sell at 80% of the future retail price. The purchase price (licence) and yearly maintenance (SSA fee) for this tool is incredibly inexpensive. To be able to upgrade to get all the new bells and whistles to become more efficient and make more money is a huge bonus. Basically no moving parts to wear out and if something doesn't work properly -  there is a company support team as well a very experienced community of users to provide assistance. 

 

Before anyone gets too judgemental, let me explain. I can't think of any tool I purchased over the past 30+ years that can measure up to the statements above. Yes some tools / pieces of equipment would carry value for a while, ....until my accountant depreciated them on my taxes. I never heard of a truck supplier that would let me upgrade to the latest model for a mere $600 USD. Can you imagine getting the latest, safety equipment, tech items, parking assist, stereo, horse power increase, rims, blah, blah, blah, in your current vehicle - AND making it a 2023 model for only $600/yr .....for the last maybe 20 years? My skid steer dealer never once said that they would install their new fuel efficient engine so I could save more money. Come to think of it, I think every other tool, including this computer will wear out, become obsolete, or become too inefficient in a shorter time than some people have been using CA since they originally purchased their licence so many years ago. Trucks won't make you a living as long as X9 has been making some people a living. Most tools are used to make retirement money, not be retirement money. No need to think of resale values if you aren't going to sell but instead continue making a living with it for many more years. Quite honestly, I can't think of too many in the construction world that can say they make $100k year after year with only a few thousand dollars of investment, definitely not anyone that needs a truck!

 

If CA can make a firm statement as to the future SSA prices and a firm statement of the continuation intentions of the past (and current) versions longevity, that would remove a lot of the unknown scepticism.

 

Businesses shift and change, those that don't, usually aren't around to offer any value of any kind, including re-sale value..... how much value is your old Blockbuster membership worth? Good thing it didn't cost anything eh?

 

As for new members weighing CA's new approach vs the competitors, ...I think the latest member is making a bit of a statement with this handle.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, lbuttery said:

however, CA has stated that I can NOT sell my X14

 

It does not effect me as I will be using CA for a few years yet, but I definitely don't agree with this new Policy if true, as it's always been possible and so is a bit of a slap in the Face to Long Time Users, especially those who have always paid there SSA.

 

I also think Chief should of given all Existing Users 90Days (?) warning to get themselves Organized, finish Projects if needed, and if desired Sell both current (X14) and older licenses, under the current (old?) Policy. Though I'd have thought that there could even be a Tiered Transfer Cost depending on version or some similar scheme in the Future, along with a higher cost SSA perhaps going forward for the new licensees..... rather than the big middle finger to Loyal Users.

 

Mick.