Foundation Beam Pockets

[Larry_Sweeney]

I'm trying to find the best way to show beam pockets in a render view and also looks correct in plan view. My thoughts were to use a wall niche, but it leaves a thin layer of the foundation material at the top of the wall. Is there a work around to eliminate this thin layer or is there just another simple approach for making a beam pocket that looks correct in a plan view? I tried a search, but as usual I didn't have any success.

[robdyck]

14 minutes ago, Larry_Sweeney said:

My thoughts were to use a wall niche, but it leaves a thin layer of the foundation material at the top of the wall. Is there a work around to eliminate this thin layer or is there just another simple approach for making a beam pocket that looks correct in a plan view

This doesn't work in some places anyways. Chief won't let me put this BP right to the inside corner of the concrete wall.

[robdyck]

I think the real answer is a feature request that beams create pockets in masonry walls and allow a BP label at the start and / or end.

[robdyck]

@solver

Not bad! I wonder if the merging that Chief will undoubtedly do can be eliminated by placing the BP wall on a different layer? 

It seems workable, just not reasonable:)

[robdyck]

@Larry_Sweeney

I made this symbol because it can be placed anywhere. Of course for it to really be useful, you'd need to create a library of BP's edited for your typical beams and wall types.

But, it will not get rid of the top face of the concrete wall.

BP.calibz

[robdyck]

Here's the image result. 

 

[Larry_Sweeney]

Eric...…………….I've been working with your idea with some success. The smallest, it seems, that I can make an opening width is 10" without losing the pony wall after connecting all the wall back together. When the beam pocket is on a corner the width is more like 17" and then the is quite a bit of fussing around. I also had a beam pocket placed where on the outside of the wall I had a "furred" 4" block wall. It was only 2 courses high for a ledge to support concrete steps and it ended right in the center area of where the beam pocket was placed on the inside of the foundation wall. This is really giving me a headache. Your work around does work in most cases.. I guess I'll mention it in the "Suggestions" though I probably wouldn't live long enough to see it in the program.   To all that answered on this thread...…............Thank you for your time and knowledge. Be safe and have a great day.

[Larry_Sweeney]

Eric..................Dang it! You always leave me thinking. That's a positive, not a negative. When I was "head scratching" with your work around I thought I was following your steps precisely. That must not be the case.  I guess it's back to the "drawing board" for me.

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, solver said:

This one is 1/2". It probably depends on the order of operations.

Eric, I don't suppose you tried that method out for an inside corner of a foundation wall, did you? That ain't gonna work, right?

[Larry_Sweeney]

Robert.....……….I was able to get Eric's work around to work at a corner. It took some fudging and a coffee or two. I have a 9 5/8" block wall and the width of the beam pocket is 10 3/4"Wx4"Dx8"H. I came to realize the depth of the pocket partially determines how narrow the width can be made after playing around and watching Eric's video. I still haven't been able to get close to a 1/2" gap as Eric shows in his last thread. Hopefully I'll figure it out at some point.

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, Larry_Sweeney said:

Robert.....……….I was able to get Eric's work around to work at a corner. It took some fudging and a coffee or two. I have a 9 5/8" block wall and the width of the beam pocket is 10 3/4"Wx4"Dx8"H. I came to realize the depth of the pocket partially determines how narrow the width can be made after playing around and watching Eric's video. I still haven't been able to get close to a 1/2" gap as Eric shows in his last thread. Hopefully I'll figure it out at some point.

Nice work Larry! Did you notice that in an earlier post I attached a beam pocket symbol? just wondering if you had tried it out. Eric's method works well for what you wanted to achieve...that clean look in 3D.

And thanks for reminding me that I'm still out of coffee! I better get on that or tomorrow am will be rough!

[Alaskan_Son]

Do all you guys realize that that beam pockets are (or at least can be) fully automatic?  All I did was draw 4 foundation walls and place a beam...

 

If you need the plan view to look a specific way and/or you don't want the beam pocket extending fully through the wall, my thoughts are that if you're going to go through all the trouble of placing custom symbols or placing wall breaks and manipulating wall types anyway, you could just as easily place a quick polyline solid and plain old polyline CAD mask.  Very quick and easy to copy and paste too.

[rlackore]

8 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Do all you guys realize that that beam pockets are (or at least can be) fully automatic?  All I did was draw 4 foundation walls and place a beam...

 

I can't achieve that behavior. The beam will cut the other framing members (sill plates), but it won't cut a pocket in the foundation wall:

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, rlackore said:

 

I can't achieve that behavior. The beam will cut the other framing members (sill plates), but it won't cut a pocket in the foundation wall:

 

The OP was using a CMU wall.  For whatever reason, Chief won't cut beam pockets into Concrete materials (probably a bug).  You can however change your Concrete material definition to something other than the Concrete material type (Masonry for example).

[Larry_Sweeney]

Michael...…………...Agreed, by adding an actual beam, CA will cut a hole in and through the wall. I'm trying to remember in my 45+ yrs. of designing and building homes where I would have a beam pocket in the foundation that went all the way through the foundation wall so the end of the beam would be exposed to the elements. We always made our beam pockets a minimum of 1/2" wider on each side, a 1/4" higher and 1/2" deeper, but never clear through the foundation wall. The space on the sides and depth were so the wood did not touch the masonry and the extra height allowed us to install a 1/4" steel plate underneath between the beam an masonry. If CA can (and does) cut a hole in a masonry wall for the beam then they should give us the option to specify how much larger in width, depth and height we want the pocket to be. In the meantime I like Eric's work around. It's not perfect for every instance and it can be a little time consuming, but the visuals are good. I don't think about the "up and down thing" very often, but he got a well deserved + one from me.

[Larry_Sweeney]

Eric...……….I do like your work around. It can do most types of beam pockets that a person runs into. I seem to find that if the top block is less than half the width of the block it sometimes will not perform as wanted. Another area I ended up using p-solid because I just could not get your way to work. I'm showing in the attached picture of the outcome I was after. If you want to try to accomplish what I'm showing using your work around go for it. If not that's fine. You've done much more already treating me to your time and knowledge---very much appreciated. I thank you and all who have responded to my thread. Be safe and have a great day.

[DRAWZILLA]

As with anything, the devil is in the details, that connection should be referenced to a detail, don't worry about getting the model perfect, which cannot be done without spending too much time doing it.

[GeneDavis]

Hail Perry!

[Larry_Sweeney]

1 hour ago, solver said:

 

Attach a simple plan with that corner so I'm working with your walls.

 

Eric...………...Attached is a cut down version of the project. I have noted the beam pocket on the foundation plan in red. Appreciate you taking the time.

BEAM POCKET TEST.plan

[robdyck]

12 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Do all you guys realize that that beam pockets are (or at least can be) fully automatic?

I do! But as you mentioned, if your concrete is 'concrete' then you're SOL. And if you edit the material to 'other' than the BP goes all the way through. And to set the record straight on my priorities / skills / knowledge, I would never mess around with BS like this other than to take a break from actual work! And I can't tell you how much fun I had creating a beam pocket symbol.

 

[kylejmarsh]

8 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

As with anything, the devil is in the details, that connection should be referenced to a detail, don't worry about getting the model perfect, which cannot be done without spending too much time doing it.

 

That's my philosophy too. 80/20 rule why would I spend even a minute trying to make a beam pocket appear when nobody is ever going to care about that, nor will they notice it on the drawing, and I could be spending that time playing with my daughter instead. If you want a pocket to show just give your default floor beams some 'fill' - I use 70% transparent fills for mine - and it will give a bit of a beam pocket effect without the fuss.

 

That said, it seems like something that will probably be in the auto-behavior sooner or later, and I'm happy to see it added to the fuctionality.

[GeneDavis]

All the foundation builder needs is shown on the plan view he uses.  He is issued just two prints out of a 24-page set.

 

The 3" depth is done by him using two thicknesses of 2x lumber screwed to his forms.  The LVLs bearing in these only need 1-3/4" for full load.