Where would you put the window label?

[robdyck]

This topic is sort of a question and partly a discussion. When using a window schedule with callouts for labels, where would you prefer to locate the window label.

My default window / door label is located centered of the window, and offset to the exterior by -9". When using a window size as the label, the dimension extension goes through (over) the 'x' in 60" x 30" for example. I find this acceptable...I guess.

 

When using a callout for a label, the dimension extension goes through the center of the callout, kinda wrecking the legibility of the callout label.  Assuming that drawing group orders will be left alone for windows and for dimensions, where would you place the callout label?

[rgardner]

Good discussion!  Personally I usually dimension to outside of both sides due to this issue.  I would prefer to center but that would require the fallout to have a background fill in my OCD mind.

[robdyck]

The callout does have a fill if you choose that in your text styles. My text styles are customized for openings in plan view and in elevation view. The problem is that the label has no drawing order control of its own...its a slave to the window! The window being order 25, and the dimension being order 5. 

[DzinEye]

Kind of a pain to do, but change the gap from marked object to be further from the window.  
 

[robdyck]

Dimensioning to sides of windows in a typical Canadian market is a disaster as I use nominal imperial sizes, but most manufacturers build metric units.

ie: a 60" x 30" window will actually be 1500 x 750  (59 1/16" x 29 1/2"). 

I believe I'll offset all my labels to be above or to the right of center.

[robdyck]

Just now, DzinEye said:

Kind of a pain to do, but change the gap from marked object to be further from the window.  
 

That brings up a pet peeve of mine. My dimensions for 1/4" scale are set to have a 2" gap from the marked object. Look at the difference how the extension treats a window versus a wall corner. WHY?

[DzinEye]

FWIW...I usually dimension to just one side of a window.  Builder should be getting R.O. from the schedule.

[DzinEye]

4 minutes ago, robdyck said:

WHY?

So it doesn't interfere with your window label ?   LOL

 

[robdyck]

4 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

FWIW...I usually dimension to just one side of a window.  Builder should be getting R.O. from the schedule.

Centers for me, but yeah, the same. My window schedule isn't for the framer, it's for the window mfr.

[robdyck]

Just now, DzinEye said:

So it doesn't interfere with your window label ?   LOL

 

Good one! I moved that label to show the extension behavior.

[DzinEye]

1 minute ago, robdyck said:

My window schedule isn't for the framer, it's for the window mfr.

Ok, that's usually true for me too... but then they provide the schedule with R.O's. which the framer should be using.
I don't want to dim. to both sides because then I'm at fault if a window ends up with a different R.O.

Rene Rabit recently made a compelling argument for dimensioning to sides vs. center in the thread 'dimension center'... saying his clients want to know they have enough room on the wall beside the window for their furniture.  I don't usually get into that level of detail with clients, but from time to time I do...but usually I just want the window either centered on a room, or X-distance from a wall and wherever the other side of the window ends up is where it ends up no matter what size the window ends up being.

[robdyck]

1 minute ago, DzinEye said:

Rene Rabit recently made a compelling argument for dimensioning to sides vs. center in the thread 'dimension center'... saying his clients want to know they have enough room on the wall beside the window for their furniture.

I read that and Rene definitely made a great point. For me, that type of planning happens on a case-by-case basis, however I use a different layer set for the design development phases versus the con docs. So, for me the final con docs are always showing the dims to the center of openings...except for concrete buck outs. I give the foundation crew dims to the sides of the cutouts! 

[joey_martin]

My 0.2¢

 

[LevisL]

I have my window labels centered as well when I don't use a callout. Offset to the exterior by -8" and dimensions extensions set to 2" from marked object. My extensions don't go through the text. If I use a callout, I just move it off to one side of the extension line, similar to yours Robert.

 

For foundation walls (or walls thicker than 2x6), -8" doesn't work well, so I increase it and just adjust the extensions for that string. If there's other dimension strings (which there usually is), they cover up the larger extension gap at the walls.

 

Seems odd that the extension setting at openings is hard coded. Never noticed that before... I always thought my text style with a fill was covering the tip of the extension!

[DzinEye]

10 hours ago, LevisL said:

Seems odd that the extension setting at openings is hard coded. Never noticed that before... I always thought my text style with a fill was covering the tip of the extension!

Not quite hard-coded.  It seems to be a set amount more (~6") than whatever you have the gap set for.  If you increase your gap, that will increase too.

[robdyck]

19 hours ago, joey_martin said:

My 0.2¢

 

No question about it Joey, you've got a knack for putting a lot of info on a floor plan in a clean, easy to read fashion! 

[Chrisb222]

I just manually drag the extension out to the callout border.

 

If you have a long string of windows, you can copy/paste the new "Gap Form Marked Object", or use "Apply To All" if you have other extensions at the corners.

 

[SH_Canada]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:31 PM, robdyck said:

I read that and Rene definitely made a great point. For me, that type of planning happens on a case-by-case basis, however I use a different layer set for the design development phases versus the con docs. So, for me the final con docs are always showing the dims to the center of openings...except for concrete buck outs. I give the foundation crew dims to the sides of the cutouts! 

 

On 4/10/2020 at 3:31 PM, robdyck said:

I read that and Rene definitely made a great point. For me, that type of planning happens on a case-by-case basis, however I use a different layer set for the design development phases versus the con docs. So, for me the final con docs are always showing the dims to the center of openings...except for concrete buck outs. I give the foundation crew dims to the sides of the cutouts! 

 

I decided to create a floor plan for the owner and a floor plan for the framer. Owner SPV are to the window sides. Framer  SPV are to the center of opening(as it is the convention here). owner plan also has furniture. Framer plan has nothing but walls, doors.. My foundation plan has opening to the RO so the cribber doesn't have to think. I've just finished adding RO from floor to schedule. so in theory the only thing the framer has to do is take that number and subtract 1.5" for the bottom plate to make his cut. And the cribber has to add 3" from the footing to account for the basement floor

 

Next step is to figure out how to auto increment numbers on layout with different prefixes without going to two layouts. i.e. sheets 1-10 are the "plans starting with A-1" and page 11-29 are for construction with "C-1" forward, and still use the schedule on page 1, and be able to add layout pages for more structural detail. And it all just auto numbers away and maintains the proper total pages below my A-x, C-x, etc i.e maybe for the next job which has two stories its now A-1 to A-14

 

but back to the topic at hand, why not just move the label to the inside side of the window, then your dimension would not go through the callout or the label (which is why I ended up at this thread, looking to see how people are doing that)

 

[DzinEye]

1 hour ago, jasonN said:

Next step is to figure out how to auto increment numbers on layout with different prefixes without going to two layouts.

Ya... you should post this Q in a new post... but here's what you need to do..
First select the page number text box on page 0, open it and select the Layout Page Label macro from the available list... or just type it in.  Then in your Project Browser you need to set up one of each of whatevever different prefix pages you need...  T, A, S, etc., using the Label area in the Layout Page Specification per the example below.  "A-#" will automatically let you add A-pages, "S-#" will let you add S-pages, etc..

[SH_Canada]

thanks, I see it is smart enough to start from 1 when you switch letters