mmbruce

Butt Ceiling Joists at Ceiling Beam

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I am using Chief Architect X7.  I cannot figure out how to automatically butt ceiling joists against a ceiling beam with the same bottom height as the joists.  In other words, hang the ceiling joists on the beam.  If I drop the ceiling beam below the joists, I can make them bear on the beam, but that's not what I'm looking for.

 

This works for floor joists and beams, but seemingly not for ceiling joists and beams.  Am I missing something obvious?

 

Screenshot shows joists running "through" the beam if the beam has the same bottom elevation as the joists.

 

Thanks for your help.

Ceiling Joists.jpg

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28 minutes ago, mmbruce said:

butt ceiling joists against a ceiling beam with the same bottom height as the joists.

There may be another way since I don't do a lot of framing in Chief and I don't know for sure if this works in X7 but..

this was done with a single floor so beam was placed on same floor as ceiling framing- after placing lock depth and move beam to correct height set joists to butt in default or in framing DBX, build framing, draw line along beam and extend it out past on each side, select line and then the trim tool-use fence and sticky mode likely helps (also helps to lock the beam layer first) then trim joists on one side, add second line or move the first one and repeat trim on second run of joists.

floor joist to butt.png

Joists butting beam.png

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if you make it a bearing beam by checking the box at the bottom of the DBX, it should break the ceiling joists.

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Mark's method would be the technically correct version.  However if you are not worried about a material list and just want the correct look in 2D you could use a solid fill in the beam and move it to the top display group.

 

Perry I tried that as well but could not get a flush result.  Lap and break as well as span through or over was not a problem.

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Not sure about X7 but you could use a "Bearing line to break the joists also., You can also check with or without joists to get the flush result.

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4 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

Not sure about X7 but you could use a "Bearing line to break the joists also.

 

Yes that is the solution.  Bearing line on each side of the beam.

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3 hours ago, MarkMc said:

There may be another way since I don't do a lot of framing in Chief and I don't know for sure if this works in X7 but..

this was done with a single floor so beam was placed on same floor as ceiling framing- after placing lock depth and move beam to correct height set joists to butt in default or in framing DBX, build framing, draw line along beam and extend it out past on each side, select line and then the trim tool-use fence and sticky mode likely helps (also helps to lock the beam layer first) then trim joists on one side, add second line or move the first one and repeat trim on second run of joists.

floor joist to butt.png

Joists butting beam.png

 

This works but I'm looking for an automatic solution akin to what CA does for the floor joists.

 

3 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

if you make it a bearing beam by checking the box at the bottom of the DBX, it should break the ceiling joists.

 

Only if the beam is entirely below the joists.  This doesn't work if the beam's bottom is at the same elevation as the joists.

 

2 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

Mark's method would be the technically correct version.  However if you are not worried about a material list and just want the correct look in 2D you could use a solid fill in the beam and move it to the top display group.

 

This is an OK workaround but then the beam covers up walls, dimension lines, and other things.

 

2 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Yes that is the solution.  Bearing line on each side of the beam.

 

The bearing line "snaps" to the center of the beam.  There's no way to move it to the edge of the beam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess the software doesn't support what I'm looking for.  Thanks anyway.

 

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22 minutes ago, mmbruce said:

The bearing line "snaps" to the center of the beam.  There's no way to move it to the edge of the beam.

 

The Ctrl Key should disable Snapping temporarily......I haven't tried it in this particular situation though.

 

Posting the Plan so Others can Play with your particular situation is always best, just make sure the Plan is not open in Chief when you attach it.

Make it Clear you are Using X7....

 

*** CS/Perry's double Bearing Line does work in X10 , otherwise they auto cut on the center line of the beam even if not bearing on top of it.

 

image.thumb.png.d1b3cfb63be5470c7bcd8daef81b5038.png

 

M.

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45 minutes ago, mmbruce said:

The bearing line "snaps" to the center of the beam.  There's no way to move it to the edge of the beam.

 

It would seem that this does work in X7 and you can also select and move a bearing line which will also work if it is in the center of the beam.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

It would seem that this does work in X7 and you can also select and move a bearing line which will also work if it is in the center of the beam.

 

 

 

Thanks for the video.  I can successfully snap to either side of the beam.  Unfortunately, when I drag the bearing line from one side of the beam to the other, the bearing line moves itself to the center of the beam.

 

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6 hours ago, mmbruce said:

Unfortunately, when I drag the bearing line from one side of the beam to the other, the bearing line moves itself to the center of the beam.

 

Why are you moving it?  Like CS , I have now found if I place a single one on the beam center it Auto-cuts the Joists either side of the beam,

but if you rely on the Beam's own (built-in) Bearing line it joins them in the center as you experienced.

 

image.thumb.png.db308c16beaf95b69bc0169a60a50c8b.png

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2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Why are you moving it?  Like CS , I have now found if I place a single one on the beam center it Auto-cuts the Joists either side of the beam,

but if you rely on the Beam's own (built-in) Bearing line it joins them in the center as you experienced.

 

image.thumb.png.db308c16beaf95b69bc0169a60a50c8b.png

 

 

When I start a bearing line on one side of a beam, on its edge, and drag the other end of it to the other side of the beam (across the room), the bearing line automatically moves to the centerline of the beam.  Therefore, I cannot use Chopsaw's solution:

 

On 11/25/2018 at 1:01 PM, Chopsaw said:

 

Yes that is the solution.  Bearing line on each side of the beam.

 

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1 hour ago, mmbruce said:

When I start a bearing line on one side of a beam, on its edge, and drag the other end of it to the other side of the beam (across the room), the bearing line automatically moves to the centerline of the beam.  Therefore, I cannot use Chopsaw's solution:

 

I don't understand the reason why the bearing line is snapping to the center of the beam and that should possibly be looked at.  However it should not matter if the beam is flush with the top of the joists.  For me it works at either edge or the center and only requires a single bearing line.  On my initial test the beam was not flush.

 

Post the plan or a simplified version of it that is behaving the same way.   Maybe we can figure this out.

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Bearing lines always snap to center of beams and walls. I didn't read through all this, but I do A LOT of framing in my models...A LOT...and the only time this issue occurs is when auto framing is turned off. Turn auto framing back on and make sure all the defaults are set correctly and the beam will automatically do what you want to do, even with the beam at the exact same level as the joists.

 

And BTW...I never use the bearing line unless I need joists to break over a bearing wall. Using the Floor/Ceiling Beam tool will do what you need it to do.

Screenshot 2018-11-26 20.53.44.png

Screenshot 2018-11-26 20.53.37.png

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On 11/25/2018 at 9:44 AM, DRAWZILLA said:

if you make it a bearing beam by checking the box at the bottom of the DBX, it should break the ceiling joists.

 

That usually works....  but I did have an instance lately where that did not work.  

 

Maybe user error.  I will see if I can remember the job to check it again.

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