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Coffered and Vaulted Ceiling

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Any one know a good method to draw a crown molded coffered ceiling that is vaulted not flat? I am a less than 1 year user of Premier x9.  I watched a training video on the flat ceiling method for coffering and pulled that off really well but now I need to do a vaulted and coffered ceiling and the same methods didn't work.

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20 minutes ago, ShowmeCHIEF said:

Any one know a good method to draw a crown molded coffered ceiling that is vaulted not flat? I am a less than 1 year user of Premier x9.  I watched a training video on the flat ceiling method for coffering and pulled that off really well but now I need to do a vaulted and coffered ceiling and the same methods didn't work.

 

I think you're going to have to clarify what you mean by "vaulted and coffered".  In my book, those are typically used to describe 2 totally different situations and so a little additional information as to how the 2 might be combined might be in order.  It would also be useful to know where you would like the crown to go in this vaulted and coffered ceiling.

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Images or a drawing of what you are wanting to model?

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You can not put crown molding on a vaulted ceiling (in the real world).  Someone will be along shortly to argue that point but trust me, don't try it.  The "tricks" to do it, all look awful.

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Here is an image of what I am trying to do, My ceiling is vaulted (less pitch than the roof). anyone know how?

Image result for images of a vaulted and coffered ceiling

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Create your beams and molding in plan view. Convert to a symbol. Rotate the symbol to match the roof pitch. Move into position.

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Any Detroit Tiger fan is a fan of mine, but what your wanting to do will take a lot of trial and error.... if its even possible.  Its all about the plane.  Once you get the plane correct, I think you can then convert to a molded poly.  Do you have access to Autocad?  Might be able to make a rectangle polygon on the correct plane, then bring it over to CA and covert. IDK.. 

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Here is one I worked on a while back and it was even more complicated than it appears you are looking to accomplish but there were some lessons learned that should easily apply to your build.

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/11548-wainscotingmolding/#comment-99539

 

Symbols may be the way to go but it could also be done with 3D Molding Polylines for the verticals and 3D Molding Polylines with a rotated Molding Profile or even and extruded polyline solid for the horizontal pieces generated from a Placed Molding Profile in elevation view.

 

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2 hours ago, solver said:

Create your beams and molding in plan view. Convert to a symbol. Rotate the symbol to match the roof pitch. Move into position.

This^^^^ is Ed Zachary the first thing what came to mind for me as well.  And by "plan view" I think Eric was kinda assuming you would understand this meant you would be drawing it all parallel to the Z plane.  Just an aside to that, but I might personally draw all the beams as usual and only draw the trim per Eric's suggestion.  

 

That and/or using solid extrusions and boolean operations (could be drawn parallel/perpendicular to axes or not).  After inspecting the picture above a little better, I'm really thinking the solids might be a necessity at some point.  

 

At any rate, it's definitely doable but it will likely require learning a good handful of other tricks along the way as well. Probably a good exercise.  

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33 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

This^^^^ is Ed Zachary the first thing what came to mind for me as well.  And by "plan view" I think Eric was kinda assuming you would understand this meant you would be drawing it all parallel to the Z plane.  Just an aside to that, but I might personally draw all the beams as usual and only draw the trim per Eric's suggestion.  

 

That and/or using solid extrusions and boolean operations (could be drawn parallel/perpendicular to axes or not).  After inspecting the picture above a little better, I'm really thinking the solids might be a necessity at some point.  

 

At any rate, it's definitely doable but it will likely require learning a good handful of other tricks along the way as well. Probably a good exercise.  

Yup! Looks like PSolid subtraction operation to me. Could be done but has nothing to do with how it would be done in the real world. If you can’t make it ...Fake it! Kind of Sad really. We can drawn fully layered walls but not the ceiling in the picture.

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If you use sofffits or custom countertops, you can assign molding to them, so it would not need to be applied separately.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, solver said:

If you use sofffits or custom countertops, you can assign molding to them,

 

Just to clarify, this will only work for the creation of symbols as these items can not be used on a sloped ceiling.

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Sloped soffits work for beams running from eave to ridge, but the sides remain vertical (plumb) when turned 90 degrees, so won't work in that direction.

 

This looks good in standard, but shows extra lines in vector.

 

The time consuming part is getting the symbol located. 

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.5028a0cbf942d926d478767281012f68.jpg

 

 

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So is that all symbols in both directions created from soffits with molding ?

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39 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

So is that all symbols in both directions created from soffits with molding ?

 

A single symbol. Created 1 beam using a soffit with the crown applied as a molding.

 

Copied/distributed that beam across, then copied and rotated one of those, copied and distributed it.

 

Cut/Paste into a new plan. Convert to symbol. I picked Millwork, but one of the other options might work better.

 

Place the symbol in plan and rotate -- the positioning and rotation was not as easy as I thought it would be.

 

Here it is shown in plan. It looks like it extends outside, but it does not. Also rotating to the roof pitch did not work. It rotates, but does not match the pitch.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.ff0843a06a36b3cf765d637e323aa4c3.jpg

 

Fixed 2D Cadblock as per Chopsaw

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.31290d8423f49aefa8af8cf00c7ad86d.jpg

 

 

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Well it all looks great in standard view.  Just wanted to make sure you had not found a trick to keeping the molding attached to a sloped Soffit placed under roof because that would be a handy tool if it worked.  Maybe even a feature request.

 

Did you try to regenerate the 2D Cadblock after rotating ?

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3 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

Did you try to regenerate the 2D Cadblock after rotating ?

 

I'm not that knowledgeable, but doing so fixed the plan display -- thanks for that suggestion.

 

6 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

found a trick to keeping the molding attached to a sloped Soffit placed under roof

 

I see that is a problem too. Never tried that. So many things that don't quite work.

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Did you try to regenerate the 2D Cadblock after rotating ?

 

17 minutes ago, solver said:

doing so fixed the plan display

 

This was the one reason I thought that the symbol method might be worthwhile.  So that you would not have to use cad to draw out the plan view but are there enough snap points that it could be dimensioned ? 

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Chop & Solver, thanks for the suggestions here. I,ve only been using Cheif for about 9 months so I dont totally follow but I am going to give a try. Thanks

 

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5 minutes ago, ShowmeCHIEF said:

Chop & Solver, thanks for the suggestions here. I,ve only been using Cheif for about 9 months so I dont totally follow but I am going to give a try. Thanks

 

Don’t feel bad, I’ve been using Chief since X7 and I still have trouble. Thank the good Lord for all the Gurus here.

BTW, I love your handle “ShowMeChief”. I should change mine to “HelpMePlease”. LOL!

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Just let us know if you need specific clarification on an issue as you go and we will try to help.  This is a little beyond the general chief knowledge base or training video's so it is great to see someone like you giving it a try.  I just sent in a bug report today on one of the procedures that is a little confusing in the way it functions so that is how the software keeps improving when people like you and your customers keep on asking great questions.

 

If this ceiling is all you need to finish off a plan then it might be a good idea to make a test plan of the basic room size and try out some of the suggested procedures and then you can also post that file or create some screen shots so we can see your progress.

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1 hour ago, Chopsaw said:

Just let us know if you need specific clarification on an issue as you go and we will try to help.  This is a little beyond the general chief knowledge base or training video's so it is great to see someone like you giving it a try.  I just sent in a bug report today on one of the procedures that is a little confusing in the way it functions so that is how the software keeps improving when people like you and your customers keep on asking great questions.

 

If this ceiling is all you need to finish off a plan then it might be a good idea to make a test plan of the basic room size and try out some of the suggested procedures and then you can also post that file or create some screen shots so we can see your progress.

Well said ChopSaw! And yes, a tremendous effort on the part of ShowMeChief (SMC) to tackle such a complex ceiling. Assuming SMC is willing, we could all learn from a step by step with pics. Myself, I would record a video talking through the steps and forget all the text. User could watch and pause as they follow along.

 

As an aside, and given my limited knowledge, I keep thinking how any element we use in a plan can one day translate to a material list. You can go to the lumber yard and order a soffit or a slab or a Psolid. Granted the Chief elements do make a beautiful model, as SMC has demonstrated, but how will Chief these parts in a Material list for pricing and ordering?

 

Again, great effort SMC and cudos to all who helped in the process.

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I would just use soffits to make the parallel with rafters and p solids for the other stuff. Place soffits in plan view to follow ceiling.Then layout the p solids in cross section. Place moulding line for the crown on the soffits and use moulding profile to create a p solid crown for the perpendicular to rafters. Easy to rotate the cad profile before you convert to solid. Should also set profiles where you want them before you convert to p solid or you will have hard time adjusting. 

 

Untitled 2.jpg

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