SNestor

framing plate location under 2x6 wall

Recommended Posts

I have a 2x6 wall that separates the house from the garage...when I build the auto build the framing it places a 2x4 sill plate under the wall on top of the foundation but the plate is aligned to the inside of the wall.  

 

I've tried flipping the wall from interior to exterior...that doesn't work.  Is this just a quirk in the software or is it user error?  

 

It's no big deal to fix it...just pull it over into the correct location...but, every time you rebuild the framing it moves it back to the incorrect location.  

Framing Plate 1.png

Framing Plate 2 - plan view.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a wall definition issue.  Try a different wall type and see if the problem remains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, javatom said:

Sounds like a wall definition issue.  Try a different wall type and see if the problem remains.

Yep, that's what I'm thinking also

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have gone through the wall definition...to no avail.  Changed the wall type to OOB "Fire-6"...reframed...same result. 

 

Below are pics of the wall definition...which is basically an OOB Interior-6.  

Wall Plate - Wall Def 1.png

Wall Plate - Wall Def 2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Can you post that plan?  At least a stripped down version?

 

Yes please,  let's find out what the issue is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, the Plate in the Foundation Wall is specified as 3.5" wide.

The Mud-Sill is governed by the Foundation Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,  this is so interesting.  You should understand that you can control the size of the sill plate on a wall by wall basis.  Your default sill plate is 3.5/  Change it.  Experiment with it.  The sill  plate will center under the wall above.  Make the sill plate the width of the conc stem wall.  

 

Play with it,  see what happens when you use different plate sizes....  hard to explain....

 

 Bottom line,  change the width of the sill plate to 8" and you will be happy.  In fact,  change the DEFAULT WIDTH OF THE SILL plates....  and you  will be happier.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 8.50.15 AM.png

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW.  if you look at Steve's 3d framing view,  you will notice he uses many different material/colors for the different framing members.  In fact he uses light yellow for studs @ 16 and dark yellow for studs @ 24.

 

Good  stuff.   Where he did not do a good job was with his rafters and roof trusses.  I think he is using the same material for both.  I would of chosen different material for each.

 

It is so much easier when multiple material/colors are used.  Note that I changed the truss material to a brown.......  of course all of this goes out the window if you have a closed Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 9.07.05 AM.pngScreen Shot 2017-02-23 at 9.02.53 AM.pngsoffit vs. an open soffit...

 

Thanks for the post Steve.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, dshall said:

The sill  plate will center under the wall above.

 

wall3.PNGwall2.PNGwall1.PNG

 

Thanks for pointing this out. It seems to be a less-than-intuitive behavior - but it's good to know. Rep point for Scott.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent in a request quite a while back asking Chief to change this behaviour.  It's really very silly.  I would have actually assumed that was what the problem was except that in the original post it said  "...the plate is aligned to the inside of the wall..."

 

Anyway, the rule Chief seems to work with is this... So long as the foundation wall's main layer is located anywhere beneath the main layer for the wall above, the sill plate will center itself beneath that wall's main layer...unless the wall's main layer is thinner than the sill plate in which case I believe the sill plate will default to the outside edge of the foundation .  We really need a lot more control over sill plates and sill plate placement.  I find myself needing to manually modify those more and more. 

 

Anyway...if you want to leave auto framing turned on you can try using a wall definition like this...

Wall def.png

 

There may be other solutions too but that's probably as good as any. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dshall said:

Steve,  this is so interesting.  You should understand that you can control the size of the sill plate on a wall by wall basis.  Your default sill plate is 3.5/  Change it.  Experiment with it.  The sill  plate will center under the wall above.  Make the sill plate the width of the conc stem wall.  

 

Play with it,  see what happens when you use different plate sizes....  hard to explain....

 

 Bottom line,  change the width of the sill plate to 8" and you will be happy.  In fact,  change the DEFAULT WIDTH OF THE SILL plates....  and you  will be happier.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 8.50.15 AM.png

 

The "mud sill" width is controlled by the foundation wall...but, the location of this "mud sill" is centered on the wall above...as Alaskan_Son stated this sill plate is then centered on the "main layer" of the wall above it.  This behavior is "dumb"....but it is what it is.  

 

The options are to change the mud sill width to something wide...like 6" or 8"...it will then align correctly...but, it won't appear correct...and it won't flow to a material list correctly.  Therefore...the solution is redefine the wall definition as the Alaskan_Son pointed out above...or manually fixing it.  Or...just make the mud sill wider as Scott suggested and live with it.  

 

Scott mentioned that I didn't use different colors for my rafters/trusses etc.  I really hadn't messed with the roof...but, attached is how it could look.  White is 2x4 rafters, purple is 2x6 rafters.  Orange is 2x6 ceiling joists.  I wouldn't normally frame the roof this way...it's just an example of what you can do.  Also, I named the materials specifically so that when they flow to a material list (if I ever need to have a material list) each item would be specifically called out...as opposed to a general material like "Fir Framing"....

 

I've never used a material list...so, I cannot say with great knowledge that my strategy actually works....someone may chime in to let me know.

House Framing 1.png

Thanks guys for helping me out.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,  just to be clear,  I bet if you TAKE THE SOFFIT OFF,  you will probably find that the RAFTERS & TRUSSES use the same material  (the fascia material)  and you have very little control of the materials.......  I am trying to be clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dshall said:

Steve,  just to be clear,  I bet if you TAKE THE SOFFIT OFF,  you will probably find that the RAFTERS & TRUSSES use the same material  (the fascia material)  and you have very little control of the materials.......  I am trying to be clear.

 

I'm not using "trusses"...it's all stick framing.  I was using 3 1/2" rafters because this job is going to use Trusses...just haven't gotten to the point of putting the trusses in.  All that is showing is "auto roof framing"...

 

BTW...I've watched your framing color videos...and remember you talking about the "soffit" controlling colors...but in all honesty, I don't remember the how or why.  

 

Also...I learned all this from your videos...which are required viewing by all those new to Chief.  Believe me...you will/can learn a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, SNestor said:

......

BTW...I've watched your framing color videos...and remember you talking about the "soffit" controlling colors...but in all honesty, I don't remember the how or why.  

.......

 

Here is the why,  if you do not have a soffit,  it means you can see the rafters/trusses if you stand outside the house and look up.  Don't we want the EXPOSED RAFTERS/TRUSSES to be the same material as the fascia?  So if there is not soffit,  the framing material defaults to the fascia material.

 

CA did a good job on this.......

 

 BTW,  I can't stop watching the news....  I swear,  this is such a fascinating time in our history.  I just love watching the two major news outlets and hear such contrasting views.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have another question related to the same plan...

 

Can one of you gurus tell me how to frame the 2nd floor where it cantilevers into the garage.  Why won't auto framing put a rim joist under the cantilevered wall?  I put a "bearing line" under this wall...but that doesn't work.  Any ideas?

 

Maybe I just have to frame something like this manually?

 

 

Cantilevered Floor 1.png

Cantilevered Floor 1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have time to get into it right now but that's a tricky one Steve.  In short though, you need to use some invisible walls to separate that little area of the garage underneath the cantilever.  It's the garage ceiling that's actually causing the problem.  The garage ceiling framing is controlled by the floor above unless there is no floor above.  You just need to change it so that there is no floor above the main garage area. Either that or remove the garage ceiling structure by deleting that framing layer.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I don't have time to get into it right now but that's a tricky one Steve.  In short though, you need to use some invisible walls to separate that little area of the garage underneath the cantilever.  It's the garage ceiling that's actually causing the problem.  The garage ceiling framing is controlled by the floor above unless there is no floor above.  You just need to change it so that there is no floor above the main garage area. Either that or remove the garage ceiling structure by deleting that framing layer.

 

Michael...I gave your method a shot.  No luck..

I did get the cantilevered floor to build correctly...but only if I specify that the garage has no ceiling.

 

I cannot figure out how to NOT get the 2x10 floor joists to build in the garage ceiling area.  The area above the ceiling is not a defined room...so, I'm not sure where the software is getting this specification.  

 

This is the kind of stuff that I guess is just easier to do manually...

 

 

Cantilevered Floor 3 .png

Cantilevered Floor 4 .png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Steve,

 

If I studied it for enough hours I'm sure I'd probably find a better solution, but here's a quick video going over that method I mentioned...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Hey Steve,

 

If I studied it for enough hours I'm sure I'd probably find a better solution, but here's a quick video going over that method I mentioned...

 

 

 

Michael...thanks so much for taking the time.  That was very helpful.  

It's weird...to get the software to build a ceiling (and not a floor) in the garage...a space with no ceiling dividing the two areas was required.  Now...I bet that isn't in the manual.

 

Thanks for pointing out that I needed a "bearing" line to clean up that weird intersection.  I had no idea why that was being created...

 

Final pic...

Cantilevered Floor - Final.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, SNestor said:

 

Michael...thanks so much for taking the time.  That was very helpful.  

It's weird...to get the software to build a ceiling (and not a floor) in the garage...a space with no ceiling dividing the two areas was required.  Now...I bet that isn't in the manual.

 

Thanks for pointing out that I needed a "bearing" line to clean up that weird intersection.  I had no idea why that was being created...

 

Final pic...

Cantilevered Floor - Final.png

 

You're welcome.  I don't quite know why that area needed a bearing line either.  I wasn't too familiar with the plan though.  There's probably some root cause that I missed, but the bearing line seemed to do the trick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Member Statistics

    28840
    Total Members
    9156
    Most Online
    hacarly
    Newest Member
    hacarly
    Joined
  • Similar Content

    • By Elvis1111
      I am trying to figure out if there is a way to make a framing schedule for the entire project, and not just wall by wall. 
      We are finding that framing schedules do a better job listing out the members and sizes then the material lists. 
      Thoughts/suggestions? 
    • By ACADuser
      I think I asked this before but can't remember the answer.
      The wall surrounding the Open Below room frame down into the floor area where I have a floor truss.
      Is there a setting that stops this extended wall? I have in the past just modified the framing in the wall detail but would like a better solution.
       
      Thanks
       
       

       
    • By cjanderson66
      I have designed a very large deck and the client wanted to take 2' off in one direction and another 3' in the other.  I have custom framed the deck framing per the engineer and don't want to change the framing.  The problem is that I need to rebuild the deck in order to not show the decking from overhanging the framing.  Is there a way to just rebuild the decking and not the framing of the deck itself. as you can from the rendering shown below you can see that the decking overhangs the decking.  Everytime I rebuild it it changes the framing per CA.

    • By AlmiraDesign
      I am having a difficult time with the framing of the rafters; in regards to birds mouth specifically. I am looking for assistance as I have tried many different options in aligning them to the beams. Please help me! I'd greatly appreciate it!
       
      Ps, I only began to notice the difference, when I changed depth of hip rafters to 3.5".

    • By SpeleoWorm
      I have created a number of different wall types to show proper dimensions (i.e. when one side of the wall is 5/8" Type X and the other side is 1/2" drywall) as well as to calculate the correct material counts and to show the proper information in the schedules.  Unfortunately doing that seems to have a down side...it changes the framing as if they were separate walls instead of the same wall with different materials on them.  I have seen the following side effects (colors refer to screenshots below):
       
      (Green Arrow) In unfinished rooms such as an attic storage space which only has a subfloor but no drywall, the walls get pushed up into the rafters by what appears to be 3". (Red Arrows) The floor joists and top/bottom plates are cut in the middle when they should be continuous pieces of wood.  In addition, you can see that the walls which are produced are not boxed at the end...the top & bottom plates stick out at the end. (Purple Arrow) Parts of the gable wall are not created.  In this case you could argue that it is not needed, but if a builder makes a wall he is not going to leave a hole in it. (Blue Arrows) An extra stud is added to a room that has no drywall, and therefore doesn't need nailer studs.  In addition, it looks like the other stud needed as a nailer for the finished room in the middle is missing from the plan view of the framing (see 2nd screenshot).  
      Am I doing this all wrong (creating separate wall types), or is there a way to use them and fix (any of) the issues I mentioned?
       
      Thanks in advance for any help!
       
      PS - I am a little surprised that the wall finish is not part of the room settings (like the floor & ceiling already are)...that would allow you to have continuous walls and still have different materials in each room (i.e. greenboard in the bath, 5/8" type X in a garage, unfinished in an attic, etc.
       
        
      Example of Wall Issue.plan