SNestor

framing plate location under 2x6 wall

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I have a 2x6 wall that separates the house from the garage...when I build the auto build the framing it places a 2x4 sill plate under the wall on top of the foundation but the plate is aligned to the inside of the wall.  

 

I've tried flipping the wall from interior to exterior...that doesn't work.  Is this just a quirk in the software or is it user error?  

 

It's no big deal to fix it...just pull it over into the correct location...but, every time you rebuild the framing it moves it back to the incorrect location.  

Framing Plate 1.png

Framing Plate 2 - plan view.png

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Sounds like a wall definition issue.  Try a different wall type and see if the problem remains.

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1 minute ago, javatom said:

Sounds like a wall definition issue.  Try a different wall type and see if the problem remains.

Yep, that's what I'm thinking also

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I have gone through the wall definition...to no avail.  Changed the wall type to OOB "Fire-6"...reframed...same result. 

 

Below are pics of the wall definition...which is basically an OOB Interior-6.  

Wall Plate - Wall Def 1.png

Wall Plate - Wall Def 2.png

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8 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Can you post that plan?  At least a stripped down version?

 

Yes please,  let's find out what the issue is.

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FWIW, the Plate in the Foundation Wall is specified as 3.5" wide.

The Mud-Sill is governed by the Foundation Wall.

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Steve,  this is so interesting.  You should understand that you can control the size of the sill plate on a wall by wall basis.  Your default sill plate is 3.5/  Change it.  Experiment with it.  The sill  plate will center under the wall above.  Make the sill plate the width of the conc stem wall.  

 

Play with it,  see what happens when you use different plate sizes....  hard to explain....

 

 Bottom line,  change the width of the sill plate to 8" and you will be happy.  In fact,  change the DEFAULT WIDTH OF THE SILL plates....  and you  will be happier.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 8.50.15 AM.png

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BTW.  if you look at Steve's 3d framing view,  you will notice he uses many different material/colors for the different framing members.  In fact he uses light yellow for studs @ 16 and dark yellow for studs @ 24.

 

Good  stuff.   Where he did not do a good job was with his rafters and roof trusses.  I think he is using the same material for both.  I would of chosen different material for each.

 

It is so much easier when multiple material/colors are used.  Note that I changed the truss material to a brown.......  of course all of this goes out the window if you have a closed Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 9.07.05 AM.pngScreen Shot 2017-02-23 at 9.02.53 AM.pngsoffit vs. an open soffit...

 

Thanks for the post Steve.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, dshall said:

The sill  plate will center under the wall above.

 

wall3.PNGwall2.PNGwall1.PNG

 

Thanks for pointing this out. It seems to be a less-than-intuitive behavior - but it's good to know. Rep point for Scott.

 

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I sent in a request quite a while back asking Chief to change this behaviour.  It's really very silly.  I would have actually assumed that was what the problem was except that in the original post it said  "...the plate is aligned to the inside of the wall..."

 

Anyway, the rule Chief seems to work with is this... So long as the foundation wall's main layer is located anywhere beneath the main layer for the wall above, the sill plate will center itself beneath that wall's main layer...unless the wall's main layer is thinner than the sill plate in which case I believe the sill plate will default to the outside edge of the foundation .  We really need a lot more control over sill plates and sill plate placement.  I find myself needing to manually modify those more and more. 

 

Anyway...if you want to leave auto framing turned on you can try using a wall definition like this...

Wall def.png

 

There may be other solutions too but that's probably as good as any. 

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1 hour ago, dshall said:

Steve,  this is so interesting.  You should understand that you can control the size of the sill plate on a wall by wall basis.  Your default sill plate is 3.5/  Change it.  Experiment with it.  The sill  plate will center under the wall above.  Make the sill plate the width of the conc stem wall.  

 

Play with it,  see what happens when you use different plate sizes....  hard to explain....

 

 Bottom line,  change the width of the sill plate to 8" and you will be happy.  In fact,  change the DEFAULT WIDTH OF THE SILL plates....  and you  will be happier.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 8.50.15 AM.png

 

The "mud sill" width is controlled by the foundation wall...but, the location of this "mud sill" is centered on the wall above...as Alaskan_Son stated this sill plate is then centered on the "main layer" of the wall above it.  This behavior is "dumb"....but it is what it is.  

 

The options are to change the mud sill width to something wide...like 6" or 8"...it will then align correctly...but, it won't appear correct...and it won't flow to a material list correctly.  Therefore...the solution is redefine the wall definition as the Alaskan_Son pointed out above...or manually fixing it.  Or...just make the mud sill wider as Scott suggested and live with it.  

 

Scott mentioned that I didn't use different colors for my rafters/trusses etc.  I really hadn't messed with the roof...but, attached is how it could look.  White is 2x4 rafters, purple is 2x6 rafters.  Orange is 2x6 ceiling joists.  I wouldn't normally frame the roof this way...it's just an example of what you can do.  Also, I named the materials specifically so that when they flow to a material list (if I ever need to have a material list) each item would be specifically called out...as opposed to a general material like "Fir Framing"....

 

I've never used a material list...so, I cannot say with great knowledge that my strategy actually works....someone may chime in to let me know.

House Framing 1.png

Thanks guys for helping me out.  

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Steve,  just to be clear,  I bet if you TAKE THE SOFFIT OFF,  you will probably find that the RAFTERS & TRUSSES use the same material  (the fascia material)  and you have very little control of the materials.......  I am trying to be clear.

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7 minutes ago, dshall said:

Steve,  just to be clear,  I bet if you TAKE THE SOFFIT OFF,  you will probably find that the RAFTERS & TRUSSES use the same material  (the fascia material)  and you have very little control of the materials.......  I am trying to be clear.

 

I'm not using "trusses"...it's all stick framing.  I was using 3 1/2" rafters because this job is going to use Trusses...just haven't gotten to the point of putting the trusses in.  All that is showing is "auto roof framing"...

 

BTW...I've watched your framing color videos...and remember you talking about the "soffit" controlling colors...but in all honesty, I don't remember the how or why.  

 

Also...I learned all this from your videos...which are required viewing by all those new to Chief.  Believe me...you will/can learn a lot.

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40 minutes ago, SNestor said:

......

BTW...I've watched your framing color videos...and remember you talking about the "soffit" controlling colors...but in all honesty, I don't remember the how or why.  

.......

 

Here is the why,  if you do not have a soffit,  it means you can see the rafters/trusses if you stand outside the house and look up.  Don't we want the EXPOSED RAFTERS/TRUSSES to be the same material as the fascia?  So if there is not soffit,  the framing material defaults to the fascia material.

 

CA did a good job on this.......

 

 BTW,  I can't stop watching the news....  I swear,  this is such a fascinating time in our history.  I just love watching the two major news outlets and hear such contrasting views.  

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I have another question related to the same plan...

 

Can one of you gurus tell me how to frame the 2nd floor where it cantilevers into the garage.  Why won't auto framing put a rim joist under the cantilevered wall?  I put a "bearing line" under this wall...but that doesn't work.  Any ideas?

 

Maybe I just have to frame something like this manually?

 

 

Cantilevered Floor 1.png

Cantilevered Floor 1.png

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I don't have time to get into it right now but that's a tricky one Steve.  In short though, you need to use some invisible walls to separate that little area of the garage underneath the cantilever.  It's the garage ceiling that's actually causing the problem.  The garage ceiling framing is controlled by the floor above unless there is no floor above.  You just need to change it so that there is no floor above the main garage area. Either that or remove the garage ceiling structure by deleting that framing layer.

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3 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I don't have time to get into it right now but that's a tricky one Steve.  In short though, you need to use some invisible walls to separate that little area of the garage underneath the cantilever.  It's the garage ceiling that's actually causing the problem.  The garage ceiling framing is controlled by the floor above unless there is no floor above.  You just need to change it so that there is no floor above the main garage area. Either that or remove the garage ceiling structure by deleting that framing layer.

 

Michael...I gave your method a shot.  No luck..

I did get the cantilevered floor to build correctly...but only if I specify that the garage has no ceiling.

 

I cannot figure out how to NOT get the 2x10 floor joists to build in the garage ceiling area.  The area above the ceiling is not a defined room...so, I'm not sure where the software is getting this specification.  

 

This is the kind of stuff that I guess is just easier to do manually...

 

 

Cantilevered Floor 3 .png

Cantilevered Floor 4 .png

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Hey Steve,

 

If I studied it for enough hours I'm sure I'd probably find a better solution, but here's a quick video going over that method I mentioned...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Hey Steve,

 

If I studied it for enough hours I'm sure I'd probably find a better solution, but here's a quick video going over that method I mentioned...

 

 

 

Michael...thanks so much for taking the time.  That was very helpful.  

It's weird...to get the software to build a ceiling (and not a floor) in the garage...a space with no ceiling dividing the two areas was required.  Now...I bet that isn't in the manual.

 

Thanks for pointing out that I needed a "bearing" line to clean up that weird intersection.  I had no idea why that was being created...

 

Final pic...

Cantilevered Floor - Final.png

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27 minutes ago, SNestor said:

 

Michael...thanks so much for taking the time.  That was very helpful.  

It's weird...to get the software to build a ceiling (and not a floor) in the garage...a space with no ceiling dividing the two areas was required.  Now...I bet that isn't in the manual.

 

Thanks for pointing out that I needed a "bearing" line to clean up that weird intersection.  I had no idea why that was being created...

 

Final pic...

Cantilevered Floor - Final.png

 

You're welcome.  I don't quite know why that area needed a bearing line either.  I wasn't too familiar with the plan though.  There's probably some root cause that I missed, but the bearing line seemed to do the trick. 

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