Kitchen Sample from GTM 217


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I received a couple of question from folks at and after yesterdays GTM I'm attaching a plan and a layout in a zip file. Consider this something for forensic examination-to use to figure out how you want ot go about things. There are very likely mistakes, I'm certain that some of the label macros need work and in the course of putting this together some unwanted ones may have dropped in from the library..


  • There was a request at the meeting for annosets. I agree with Perry and Scott that you need to put together what works for you but this may help get you going. The annosets here are a recent update to mine and may have mistakes yet. Started with something, a year or so later updated it, learned some more, fudged it as I went, now going working on a new and improved revised set.
  • No you do NOT need to change annosets with every release.
  • Yes you can use the same annosets for multiple templates (reference manual). OR you can use different ones. It's a good idea to export them somewhere (like the CA data file) with a date associated for when you muck them up or need to go back or want them somewhere else. I keep a second set that is less used for new construction that is different than my everyday remodel set. Just cuts down on the clutter.


  • Label macros included- the principal I'm working with is to use one macro while I work so I know what is going on, then to change all the cabinets on the primary layers to have another macro that works for ordering nomenclature (3 inch increments for example)
  • To get any of the macros out you open the macro management dbx pick it and export- then do the reverse in another plan and import (HIT F1)


  • There was a question about the molding warehouse- included some in one room with a note. Don't forget to play with the new drag a profile from the library feature.


  • Countertops-no chief will not automatically label finished edges- see the plan, keep some text int there and copy and paste. (maybe someone from the dark side can write a macro for that but I'm not going there.)
  • A few ways to get millwork and other things into a schedule- included one arch block turned sideways to show the problem from using them.
  • couple of odd symbols thingies for the schedules.
  • Included-an architectural block with a wood hood and a blower insert inside it. The blower insert is currently set so you can't really resize it without going into the symnbol DBX and changing things (look in the reference manual and play with it -best way to learn) You can use this to see if the blower you want will fit in the hood the client wants. Glass house view, cross section slider, backclipped elevations.
  • Odds and ends-if you have not seen Scott Harris method of globally changing kitchen cabinets you should check it out. Basically he keeps a couple of cabinets on the side in different door/color/construction. Then picks one and sets as default  (one reason I ONLY use cabinets that respect the defaults even though some things don't AND naturally changing from overlay to inset requires some heavy redesign)
  • There was a mention that 2020 will underline a label if you alter the size of a cabinet from the default. Chief won't. Thing is that 2020 will also underline the label if you add an accessory or a modification to the cabinet so it is NOT saving you from yourself (unless you do those last)

File and layout attached, neither is complete, but worth fooling with I think.


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Thanks for a super session Mark!  I learned a bunch.  Hopefully (someday/version) we will see CA with a robust backend that allows manufacturers to feed pricing and options data directly into Chief (without CA intervention).  If we take a collection and come up with the license & development fees for MS Dynamics (or some other CRM), then CA can engineer live data pulls from vendor maintained data sets>CA CRM Server>CA Users>Accurate & Timely Pricing, Options, Finishes, etc., etc., etc.  Wouldn't that be something?

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This was not a workshop that I got a lot out of.  It is not Mark's fault,  it's just that I do not need this stuff for what I do.


My motivation for hosting this was to help others that need this for their business.  Mark has spent a lot of time working on this.  It is my hope that with Mark's help,  The 20/20 clientele will move over to CA.    The more clients CA has,  the more money they will have which means more resources  CA will have to hire more software engineers which means a better product for me.  It's all about me,  me,  me.


I hope CA continues to work closely with Mark and any other user who feels trapped into using 20/20 but would prefer to move to a better program like CA.

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Jon, at my last real job they looked into MS Dynamics but not for that. All more than I understand but any accurate and timely pricing would make lots of folks happy.
I've been lobbying my brands to simply support text (csv) import into online ordering systems. Again at my last gig, we carried Medallion and the way to get pricing out of 2020 into the online system was to export as .txt which was just a csv file. It would be easy to turn a cabinet schedule into a csv for items. Global header items (species, style, color would take a little work as it stands now but simple enough).

The only downside would be that changed orders would likely need to be done as a new quote but I do that already anyway to keep a running record of price changes (did it in 2020 too). Less overhead, maintenance, support calls, for manufacturers; easy for KD, fast and accurate; good for CA. (Then if CA provided a way to have field for global header items...)

I'd encourage anyone to lobby there suppliers for that. For higher end brands, the ones that don't support or work well with 2020 that may not work. It would work for 75-80% pf the brands out there.


Scott, thanks for hosting. I was surprised at the number of building folks that signed up. I hope that I was able to give a little insight that may help with dealing with their kitchen people. For a number of builders, designers and architects that I work with we work with the client on the kitchen while the rest is being decided. While what I do is at the bottom of the ladder it helps avoid having plans done only to discover that the appliance package the client wants can't work in the space available.

3 hours ago, dshall said:

The more clients CA has,

I completely agree and that cuts both ways. Improvements on the building side make it easier for me to use CA to the fullest with things I might not otherwise. Being able to show a client the adjoining spaces, include stairs, put a deck outside the sliding door, and being able to easily alter the envelope makes me look miles ahead of the place showing them two walls for an ell and no other rooms. CA sells jobs.


I'll have some time over the next two weeks to work on the label macros and will do a vid (on no Mr Bill) on that and another on using the schedule into order systems, 2020, and spreadsheets (made to look like order forms).


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Mark, I'm just a designer (Or, a Design Generalist for legal purposes), but I do have fairly significant influence on the whatfors and howcomes of all built-in systems on any given project.


Understanding the nitty-gritty of the process is invaluable to ensuring smooth transition of the stuff coming out of my head and into the hands of the kids who are going to implement my design.  Thank you for furthering my understanding of what takes place after my "pretty pictures" go off into the ether.


Here's my latest.  Now I better understand the pain my designs cause the installers.  :D



20170221 Kitchen 14 02.png

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Thanks Mark for your presentation and this follow up. I learned a lot from the webinar but need to view it again when it becomes available. There was a lot of info to digest and i'm looking forward to put your tips in practice. Thanks again

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Sorry that I had to miss this by working with 20-20! I still design, render, and sell jobs using CA. I code as I go. Once the job is just right with the customer, I do busy work with 20-20 to get pricing. What a PIA!


The installer(s) like the CA drawings coming from the NKBA Annotations that Scott Harris did. I just wish that the NKBA Auto Dim's were more useful.


Like Scott Harris, I'd love to see the video. I sincerely appreciate your time and efforts. Thanks!


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4 hours ago, scottharris said:

Looks like I missed this GTM.  Was it recorded - and do you have a link to the video?

Not sure if vid is up yet. Meeting went a bit long and at times through the woods. I've promised to bite the bullet and do a vid or two once the macros are done. Thought that was going to be this week but just got buried for a bit again. Hey if I manage to get to Providence I'll do it live for ya (VBG):unsure:

What I have in mind out of what was in the meeting-

  • macro labels and the replace from library (should be short)
  • OIP and schedule with schedule to online order, and schedule to spreadsheet order using drag and drop for either. Likely will include a method to shorten looking up pricing for spreadsheet orders.
  • Then schedule to 2020 item list for order (but it looks like I have to send the machine with 2020 in for service and refuse to put 2020 on this one so may take a while)
  • An abbreviated-annosets the way I use them for kitchens - focus on dimensions, easing work, set up for cabinet detail, and layout views.
2 hours ago, Cheryl_C_Crane said:

Once the job is just right with the customer, I do busy work with 20-20 to get pricing. What a PIA!

Cheryl- once you get labels in Chief that match your brands nomenclature (via macro), and mod codes into the OIP (hence into a schedule)

THEN-you can copy the schedule, paste into a spreadsheet (or word process) and copy each into the item list in 2020.

Note that 2020 does not allow drag and drop of text so it must be copy paste.


I'm writing 2 and maybe 3 macros. The first one is the worst and least likely to match other brands easily but it's where I started.

My hope is that the other two might be easy to adapt to specific brands since they are more like what is out there (may end up also doing a Wood-Mode macro since I'm transitioning into doing just drawings and potentially have one client for that).

IF they are too difficult to convert to another brand there are always the macro/ruby folks who can do that for a fee. (I'm not that good at it so no).

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

I'm very new to CA. a long time 2020 user excited about the transition. Would love to be apart of one of these GTM's if one is ever hosted by you again! Or get a copy of the meeting? Excited to learn as much as I can about kitchen renovations/plan presentations. 

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4 hours ago, PaulSCKD said:

I'm very new to CA. a long time 2020 user excited about the transition. Would love to be apart of one of these GTM's if one is ever hosted by you again! Or get a copy of the meeting? Excited to learn as much as I can about kitchen renovations/plan presentations. 

Chopsaw recorded the meeting listed near bottom here.

As to GTM- I've been asked before, done a couple of individual training sessions, and thought about putting something together. I'm considering doing a series of four or five 2 hr meetings (free-donations welcomed) on the system I've settled on with Chief. I'll post something in offering services later this week (bit slammed right now) when I get it a bit sorted out.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/12/2018 at 7:12 AM, PaulSCKD said:

I'm very new to CA. a long time 2020 user excited about the transition. Would love to be apart of one of these GTM's if one is ever hosted by you again! Or get a copy of the meeting? Excited to learn as much as I can about kitchen renovations/plan presentations. 

Here ya go


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