HumbleChief

A Little More Anno Set Basics

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I ran into a situation where I wanted/needed a new Anno Set and thought I'd record the/my process and reasoning for a new Anno Set.

 

EDIT: Please read post #16 from Dermot at Chief explaining (much better than I) the intent of Anno Sets.

 

 

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I'm not sure if you need all those anno-layers but what I do is to create a new layer-set for a new anno-set as needed. Keeps it simple.

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I'm not sure if you need all those anno-layers

 

I AM NOT SURE WHAT YOU BASE THIS STATEMENT ON, I THINK YOU NEED WHAT YOU NEED......  SOME OF US NEED MORE

 

but what I do is to create a new layer-set for a new anno-set as needed. Keeps it simple.

 

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS,  I THINK LARRY DOES THIS,  WATCHING WENDY'S VIDEOS,  I DO NOT THINK SHE DOES THIS

 

 

 

One of the frustrating policies CA has his to NOT TELL US HOW TO UTILIZE A FEATURE.  Anno/Layer sets are a perfect example.  I am not sure if anybody uses them the same exact way.  Because CA did not explain how and why to use them, we came up with our own methods.  So I think CA's policy of not instructing us on how to use a feature actually promotes different methods.

 

I did the ANNO SET FOR DUMMIES videos many years ago.  I still use that system.  Wendy is promoting a different method and she has received some very positive feedback on her method.  Another example of the power of CA,  the option to use the features they provide us with many different ways.

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....what I do is to create a new layer-set for a new anno-set as needed. Keeps it simple.

Probably choosing the wrong words but isn't that what I did? I created a new Layer Set for the new Anno Set - I thought.  Are you talking abut the same thing Perry? The words look the same "create a new Layer Set for a new Anno Set" but I could be reading it wrong. Or something different? Without a video it's hard to understand what you're suggesting (hint hint).

 

But nothing in the system I use is simple and it's a leftover technique from a few versions ago when Anno Sets first came out. I'm just so used to my system that it's become comfortable.

 

One more thing - the intent of the videos was to show the usefulness of a new Anno Set and how one user creates them, which may appear a lot different than Wendy's (and Scott's) technique but is, in essence the same technique. Not saying it's the right technique, but one that might help others discover their own that works for them (Scott). 

 

I also just watched Scott's Anno Sets for dummies and I think each technique might look different simply because of who we are as we record the videos and the way we go about essentially the same thing. I believe we all decided that this approach made sense many versions ago during beta testing of the newest version with Anno Sets.

 

Are there other system that work too? I'd love to see and learn from them.

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What I think he does is create a new layer, instead of a new layer-set in his video. I do still think Scott has way to many layers, Anno-sets, layer-sets for me. But don't let me influence you b/c you have different needs than I. Larry's video seemed a little confusing and he does it different than all of us.

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I think by adding the word anno- as a layer was confusing to me.

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What I think he does is create a new layer, instead of a new layer-set in his video. I do still think Scott has way to many layers, Anno-sets, layer-sets for me. But don't let me influence you b/c you have different needs than I. Larry's video seemed a little confusing and he does it different than all of us.

It's exactly the same method. Copy/create new Anno Set. Create new Layer Set to match. Set Layer Set properties - done.

 

I think the method gets lost in the verbage and explanation in the video which will probably resonate to some people and not to others., which is the whole idea of presenting them. Some people like Wendy's approach. Others prefer Scott's. Hopefully my videos speak to another group that can follow my methodology and be helped a little.

 

(Dying to know who 'all of us' is)

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I think by adding the word anno- as a layer was confusing to me.

Yeah I started that a hundred years ago and can't break the habit now. I hope anyone watching knows that they can name the Layers whatever they find useful.

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One of the frustrating policies CA has his to NOT TELL US HOW TO UTILIZE A FEATURE.  Anno/Layer sets are a perfect example.  I am not sure if anybody uses them the same exact way.  Because CA did not explain how and why to use them, we came up with our own methods.  So I think CA's policy of not instructing us on how to use a feature actually promotes different methods.

 

I did the ANNO SET FOR DUMMIES videos many years ago.  I still use that system.  Wendy is promoting a different method and she has received some very positive feedback on her method.  Another example of the power of CA,  the option to use the features they provide us with many different ways.

Too true Scott. I watched a new video on Anno Sets and really can't understand how Chief intends them to be used in real world design.

 

BTW I don't think Wendy is promoting a different method at all. It's essentially the same thing. Copy/create a new Anno Set. Create a new Layer Set (usually a similar/same name) refer to the new Layer Set then set layers up in the new Layer Set. Same as your method, same as my method (Perry's is secret) but not the same as Chief's, which is as you put well, very confusing for the average user.

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Not secret, I use a very much toned down version of what Scott does.

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Hey Perry wondering though, is it the same basic, Copy/create new Anno Set, define Anno Set defaults - create new Layer Set, define new Layers in new Layer Set, done? Just not so many Layers and different names etc.? Thanks

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Just watched another Anno Set video from the UGM and the Chief narrator used the same technique which I hadn't seen before from Chief.

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Where did you find UGM Videos Larry? , I didn't see a link in the Video Train area , Thx.  I was told the Hillside Contemporary Plan in the Samples Area was only up for the UGM and would be taken  down but have not seen any other UGM content yet.

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1 - Go Larry!

 

2 - I was on the testing team when they created it.  I feel safe in saying the "intent" with it was a serious amount of flexibility.

 

My advice - most people will be best served to either "use current layerset" throughout, or assign specific layersets to annotation sets, as I do.  The reason they provide both as an option is that both are perfectly valid.  But my two cents is "pick a horse, ride that horse".  First take some time to take all this in, and play with some tests until you understand it.  Then create (or modify) as few or as many annotation as work for you, using whatever system is going to work for you.

 

I run anywhere from 8 to 10 seats at once, doing upwards of 500 projects a year.  There's a whole lot of fast production.  So for me a system where I set up some 17 anno sets ahead of time and then insist on consistency in staff usage is my best course.  Having the layerset tied to the anno sets is one less opportunity for error and one fewer click, times however many times an hour, times some 320+ hours of production every week!  That's a whole different picture from someone who does 4-8 projects a year, works alone, and where each project is detailed within an inch of it's life, inside and out.

 

So don't think in terms of "right" or "wrong".  Think in terms of personal utility.  

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Just some comments to try and clarify some things that often confuse people.

 

Annotation sets are only a short cut for changing your active defaults, default cad layer, and possibly your layer set.  That's all they do. 

 

Annotation sets are completely optional.  You can change active defaults or layer sets at anytime without using annotation sets but it is usually faster to setup and use annotation sets.

 

Views will remember your active defaults, not your annotation set.  For convenience, the program will change the annotation set toolbar if the current active defaults match any of your annotation sets.  If none of your annotation sets match the active defaults then it will say "Using Active Defaults".  If you have more then one annotation set using the same defaults, the program will just choose the first one that matches.  Don't make more then one annotation set with the same defaults because it will not work how you expect and you will just get confused.

 

Changing which defaults are used by an annotation set will not update any views.  You must reselect the annotation set if you want to have the view match your annotation set changes.

 

Deleting an annotation set will not affect any views.  Your views are tied to the defaults, not the annotation set.

 

Annotation sets were designed to be flexible so that people could choose how they want to use them.  What works best for one person may not work best for another.

 

 

 

 

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Annotation sets were designed to be flexible so that people could choose how they want to use them.  What works best for one person may not work best for another.

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And - did everybody catch a central point from Dermot:

 

Annotation sets can have an effect when you create text, cad, dimensions etc. - they do not change them afterwards.  So once your text or dimensions are the text style that you want, font, size, layer, etc., that's it, you're fine.  They are a tool for getting there.  It's a bit like driving across town - this route or that route.  Once you get there, well there you are!  

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Larry's method now makes sense. Like Perry, the use of "Anno" to start the layer set was confusing to me.

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Larry's method now makes sense. Like Perry, the use of "Anno" to start the layer set was confusing to me.

 

Yep.  

 

Something else to think about - the Annotation Set drop down looks EXACTLY like the Layerset Drop down!  The only way to tell them apart is via location (just gotta learn that Anno is on the right, Layer on the left) or pausing for the tooltip.  We insist on a common toolbar office wide, with the Anno always on the right.  But....

 

If I were doing it over again, I might even name my pairs something like:

Pres Anno 1/8"

Pres Layer 1/8"

 

That way when looking at those two drop downs, readily obvious which is which.

 

The key is that if you do use the system where the layerset is assigned via the Annotation Set, make a thoughtful decision about the names - something that will make sense to you on all fronts.

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Dermot said, "Views will remember your active defaults, not your annotation set."​

 

I still find this odd and would prefer each 'view' to remember the annotation set.  For example; I'm working on framing in plan view, but have multiple sections open so I can transfer beam and post sizing and notes to the sections.  Going back and forth between the views means I have to toggle the annoy set each time because my sections are at 3/8" and plans are at 1/4" scale.

 

I would prefer to have the annotation set be remembered with the view.  I understand that plan view isn't static and can change for foundation, framing, plan views, etc, (although it would be helpful to have the foundation also remember it's annotation set). 

 

I think it's confusing to change to 'Using active defaults' and would be better for the anno set to be retained with the view, whatever the view is.

 

PS.  Ha, ha spell check kept changing 'anno' set to 'annoy' set.  It sure is when you're trying to tie up the loose ends in your construction drawings!

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......I would prefer to have the annotation set be remembered with the view.  I understand that plan view isn't static and can change for foundation, framing, plan views, etc, (although it would be helpful to have the foundation also remember it's annotation set). 

 

.......

 

 

Interesting,  I looked into this,  I completely agree with Moe that the view selected should remember it's anno and layer set,  however it seems to work for some plan views and not others.......  I can't put my finger on it.

 

Try this,  go to layout and .....

 

 open your floor plan,  you get the proper anno and layer set

 open your framing plan,  you get the proper anno and layer set

open your foundation plan,  you get the proper anno and layer set

 

all is good so far,....

 

now tile the 3 plans vertically and alternate between selecting the different plan views,  sometimes you get the correct anno and layer sets and sometimes you don't.....  it's weird,  it is not consistent......  I agree with Moe,  if I select a plan view I should always see the proper anno and layer set.

 

I think we are all seeing something funny,  I am not sure if any of us can properly explain the behavior without doing a GTM to explain and discuss the inconsistencies.

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Dermot said, "Views will remember your active defaults, not your annotation set."​

 

 

 

Well, sort of, but not across the board.  We can and do assign a specific Annotation Set to a specific "view" in layout.

 

  1. Select a layout box - single click only.
  2. Open it's dbx via the "Open Object" icon at the bottom of the screen (looks like a door)
  3. On the Plan View tab - you can assign an Annotation Set.

When you assign an Annotation Set to a Layout Box, when you double click that layout box to edit the plan, it will then be in the correct Annotation Set for that view.  Any cad, text or dimensions you add will then be on the correct layer, be the correct text style, etc.

 

It's one of the most important reasons we use Annotation Sets.  It's not the changing of defaults for major work that's the time killer.  It's the little edits.  Why?  For major work, maybe it takes 60 seconds to change the defaults, then you do 2 hours worth of work.  For minor edits that 60 seconds (when lobbying for this feature, I counted 14 clicks....) applies to 60 seconds worth of work.  Uh oh, there went sanity and productivity.  Oops.

 

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