Revit Or Ca

[HumbleChief]

Actually, I need to apologize. I made some observations and while I stand behind them I should not expect any of you to understand. I think it is easy enough to see but that's me. I guess it's simply a matter of how you choose to see things. Anyway, I am sorry I wasted your time as well as mine. Won't happen again.

Seriously? You apologize because we don't see the world the same way you do? Or perhaps there isn't 'any of you' who are smart enough to see things your way? And what's easy enough to see? That Chief's user base is 'falling off' as you stated? I'm saying you simply made that up and there's no way you can know that to be true. No need to apologize to us simpletons who can't see the simple things you can so clearly see. But there is a need to post factual stuff that adds to the discussion instead of making stuff up that you can't know to be true.

[DRAWZILLA]

I would be very interested to find out the source of your information - can you provide details?

I suspect that you are talking through your ars*!

Glen has been here a very long time, he knows. Lets face it Most Architects just won't buy Chief b/c most also do Commercial work, Chief is not really suited to them. At least right now the forum is busier than I have seen in 10 years.

[DRAWZILLA]

And for my next topic...... Drumroll please..... Hey, I tied JC in golf last Thursday........ The world is upside down.

I know Joe is good, so you must have improved a lot, good for you buddy.

[HumbleChief]

How is relating a personal experience or thoughts something that needs to be backed-up by proof?  That seems like an odd thing to be asked to prove.

 

I think we've established in previous threads that is seems Chief's primary customers are (1) DIY and (2) Builders...as seen in CA marketing programs.  Unless Chief were to release documents or other things we aren't asking for, I am not sure how to "prove" this as a fact but this made up a very small portion of my comments.

 

If you re-read my comment on the AIA meeting, it was that I did mention Chief and the reception of that comment was one of bewilderment.  How you are getting to a point of suggesting they would feel lesser of me is a bit odd.  Of course the value of that statement is in how (in a generalized way) architects don't view CA as a professional tool - and that should be well known by everyone here.  I dont have "proof" of this statement, but Id be surprised if its questioned.

 

Further, are you suggesting that you are never asked what software you use by your clients?  I am constantly asked this question for some reason.

No need to prove anything but somehow we, on the forum, have established that Chief's customers are primarily DIY'ers and builders? Really? Then therefore what? Chief's primary customers are DIY and builders? Drawing that conclusion from a forum discussion makes no sense and no one can know that to be true unless CA opens their demographic studies for us to examine. That's all I'm saying. You can make an argument about Chief's future based on made up suppositions but why?

 

I get asked about the software I use but my clients don't care. Why would they? Remember there are many different business models using Chief. I do residential remodels. My clients wouldn't know an Archicad from ACAD to save themselves.

 

And so what if 'Architects' (in a general way) don't view Chief as a professional product? Maybe Chief's business model works very well the way it is. Maybe it doesn't and needs changing. I'm just saying there's a lot of suppositions that can't be taken as fact and perhaps shouldn't drive the discussion.

[HumbleChief]

Glen has been here a very long time, he knows. Lets face it Most Architects just won't buy Chief b/c most also do Commercial work, Chief is not really suited to them. At least right now the forum is busier than I have seen in 10 years.

Yeah seems busy to me as well. Is that an indication of Chief's user base growing? Or falling off? Can't know.

 

And focusing on residential building, a subset of the general Architectural market, might be a great strategy. Might be a horrible strategy.

 

Do you think Chief's future is bright? Or in jeopardy because of the limited market it serves? I'm hoping for the best for purely selfish reasons but the business world is full of businesses who zigged when they should have zagged.

[DRAWZILLA]

Isn't it better to seek largest base you can? Seeking us common folk, is just a better business plan. Sell more programs, make more money. Architects also love Chief, b/c it's that good.

[HumbleChief]

Isn't it better to seek largest base you can? Seeking us common folk, is just a better business plan. Sell more programs, make more money. Architects also love Chief, b/c it's that good.

I guess that's the part I wonder about. Is it better to seek a large base that might include commercial as well as residential? Or stay focused on the residential market where Chief really shines? Would it be smart to try and capture AutoCAD's market share? Or Revit's? Not an easy decision in my mind.

 

Another market that hasn't been mentioned is the design/build firm which has a designer on staff but no real need for an Architect. In my area I've seen work from a few of these firms that use Chief and have a business client who uses it in his design/build company because the design/build company he came from used Chief. Actually he worked for a few that used Chief.

 

That's a great market that seems to favor software like Chief instead of Revit etc. although I'm actually making that last part up  

[HumbleChief]

Isn't it better to seek largest base you can? Seeking us common folk, is just a better business plan. Sell more programs, make more money. Architects also love Chief, b/c it's that good.

Just had another thought along these lines Perry. In your business do you seek the largest base you can? Or (as I thought I remember you saying) do you stick with residential and not so much commercial? I'm not doing much commercial any more (I price it really high and don't land the jobs) as I found it very distracting and an entirely different skill and mind set. Does that analogy work in Chief's case as well?

 

As I keep focused on the residential market, and my client base grows and my business just keeps getting busier, should Chief do the same? Get better at what it does best? Or try and be all things to all designers/architects? Critical business strategy decisions.

[Steely]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original point of the discussion was determining possible shortcomings or advantages of competing software options.

I've been doing single family residential design for 30 years and have been using Vectorworks for most of my CAD career, with dabbles in ACAD etc.

My interest in Chief was sparked when a client brought in a home drawing that had been completed in Revit, complete with perspectives, multiple sections etc.

It was beyond the scope of what I would normally produce for a client and I was intrigued. 

It's a 'very' competitive market out there and we are all looking for software that will allow us to work faster, cheaper, and possibly with value-added elements to separate us from the crowd.

I've seen all of Scott's videos, followed the forums for months, watched nearly every Revit video out there etc. and it is still not definitively clear as to whether Chief is the answer...

I would like to believe so, but no one want's to change just for change sake. I think the BIM style model of Chief with a heavy focus on home design is the right direction as long as there is heavy focus on allowing us to produce beautiful construction drawings and still have seamless file exchange with other disciplines like Engineers etc. who are stuck in an ACAD world.

The debate needs to continue so Chief can evolve to truly serve it's users.

 

Ian

[DRAWZILLA]

Of course Revit does a lot more than Chief, it better, for 6 grand min. I really don't think Chief wants to go that way. They all have their programming problems. I believe Chief really want to improve the program using Chief tools and concentrating on what it does best.

[johnny]

No need to prove anything but somehow we, on the forum, have established that Chief's customers are primarily DIY'ers and builders? Really? Then therefore what? Chief's primary customers are DIY and builders? Drawing that conclusion from a forum discussion makes no sense and no one can know that to be true unless CA opens their demographic studies for us to examine. That's all I'm saying. You can make an argument about Chief's future based on made up suppositions but why?

 

I get asked about the software I use but my clients don't care. Why would they? Remember there are many different business models using Chief. I do residential remodels. My clients wouldn't know an Archicad from ACAD to save themselves.

 

And so what if 'Architects' (in a general way) don't view Chief as a professional product? Maybe Chief's business model works very well the way it is. Maybe it doesn't and needs changing. I'm just saying there's a lot of suppositions that can't be taken as fact and perhaps shouldn't drive the discussion.

 

If you got the impression I was presenting my opinion as if it should be relied upon face value as fact then my apologies - its not what I meant.  Its just for causal conversation.  When I look at Vectorworks and Revit marketing materials (including their forums) they strike me very differently than the marketing coming from CA.  In fact, here are articles that makes the distinction I am referring to:

 

http://www.cadalyst.com/aec/bim-goes-residential-aec-insight-column-3746

http://www.cadalyst.com/aec/chief-architect-95-fills-niche-2480

 

I do believe its safe to say with generalization that Chief has leaned more to builders and DIY markets in their past.  However, like some have noted, in my area builders are doing less and less of their own "plan drawing" and are relying on Architects/Designers for this work.  In fact, I'll go one step further and say that there are apps for less than $10 (tablet based) that do as much as a DIY-ers want to do considering how much more difficult permitting is getting in most areas.  I believe this is in stark contrast to when Chief was focusing on these apps in the late 90's into 2000's.

[johnny]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original point of the discussion was determining possible shortcomings or advantages of competing software options.

I've been doing single family residential design for 30 years and have been using Vectorworks for most of my CAD career, with dabbles in ACAD etc.

My interest in Chief was sparked when a client brought in a home drawing that had been completed in Revit, complete with perspectives, multiple sections etc.

It was beyond the scope of what I would normally produce for a client and I was intrigued. 

It's a 'very' competitive market out there and we are all looking for software that will allow us to work faster, cheaper, and possibly with value-added elements to separate us from the crowd.

I've seen all of Scott's videos, followed the forums for months, watched nearly every Revit video out there etc. and it is still not definitively clear as to whether Chief is the answer...

I would like to believe so, but no one want's to change just for change sake. I think the BIM style model of Chief with a heavy focus on home design is the right direction as long as there is heavy focus on allowing us to produce beautiful construction drawings and still have seamless file exchange with other disciplines like Engineers etc. who are stuck in an ACAD world.

The debate needs to continue so Chief can evolve to truly serve it's users.

 

Ian

 

You're probably been using Vectorworks mostly in 2d - is that correct?  Vectorworks is growing rapidly in the 3D world which then makes its overall package very appealing since its 2D is so strong. 

 

That said, if your focus is residential then nothing i've found for 3D modeling as strong as Chief.  Though I might be its harshest critic, I recognize this app as the best at what it does.  It just brings some frustration that how good this app is in 3D can't be matched in what to me seems simpler 2D and even 3D shape modeling (ie Sketchup).  Add to that an unintuitive method of approach for so many items and it can get frustrating.

[mthd97]

Old Timmer has a valid point.

I see where he is coming from looking at the old forum I have been around for 12 years on these forums.

Take for example our old friend Wendy Welton who came from Revit she is an Architect and was a power user of Chief. Last we heard she was caring for her aged father and I have not seen her post here yet, have any of you seen one?

To me thier seems to be a small core group who dominate this forum and where they get thier time from, I don't know. They must have little sleep and not much of a social life and have delegated thier work to CAD technicians or something like that?

Me, I am partly retired that is why I have time to post.

I want many others users to post so we get a broader view.

Back to Chief, my opinion is if you live in the US and do lots of houses use Chief for fast home modeling kind of like a sketch up tool but more specific for houses.

Revit users who do houses in the US need this very valuable tool that we call Chief in thier arsenal.

Sorry Glenn, OT was not talking out of his Back Side mate, at least from my point of view?

[Bill_Emery]

Mthd97,
Wendy posted a few months ago in the chat room regarding 4K monitors (you can do a search). I responded to her post, but did not hear back.

I'm with you in that in working full time, I follow the forum as best I can, but rarely post, as my work keeps me way too busy. I do think that the forum is not representative of the average user in that the posts are dominated by a few who seem to have a lot of leisure time. I do believe the forum represented a broader spectrum of users in the past.

The market has a way of sorting out what software will flourish, and which will founder; in the mean time I'm voting with my dollars on Chief. When I purchased in 2006, I could not find a better software to fill my needs, and the same is true today. Chief is quirky, and imperfect, but it works for me.

[mthd97]

Thanks Bill.

Revits basic UI works like Chief in that you can click on an object and a temporary dimension pops up that you can click on and imput the new value and the object moves into position. BTW Chief had this first as Revit is not that old.

This thread is not a waste of time as it made some good comparisons with Scott and Son talking about their different apps and problems.

Does anyone here know how Revit came about and what it developed from?

[Nicinus]

To me thier seems to be a small core group who dominate this forum and where they get thier time from, I don't know. They must have little sleep and not much of a social life and have delegated thier work to CAD technicians or something like that?

 

Funny, I don’t see it as the people active here being people with endless time on their hands. I imagine two categories, first where I belong myself, the new users that are trying to, as effectively as possible by asking for helping hands, learn a new software and all its intricacies and therefore are very active. I engage in order to understand and also because I want to make sure my investment is the right one.

 

The other category is much more important, and these are the people that are giving back. I don’t want to mention any names out of risk of missing someone, but I think we all know who they are. I can see myself, and hope to, be one of these guys in the next 5 years or so that after placing endless questions now are available for the next generation newbies. I also hope I can call some of them my virtual friends and maybe even be invited to a round of golf sometime. 

 

Designing and drafting can be solitary work and it is occasionally nice to share the daily routine with like-minded, but surely no one thinks these guys help their fellow man with Chief Architect issues because they have nothing better to do? A little more respect is deserved please.

[dshall]

Funny, I don’t see it as the people active here being people with endless time on their hands. I imagine two categories, first where I belong myself, the new users that are trying to, as effectively as possible by asking for helping hands, learn a new software and all its intricacies and therefore are very active. I engage in order to understand and also because I want to make sure my investment is the right one.

 

The other category is much more important, and these are the people that are giving back. I don’t want to mention any names out of risk of missing someone, but I think we all know who they are. I can see myself, and hope to, be one of these guys in the next 5 years or so that after placing endless questions now are available for the next generation newbies. I also hope I can call some of them my virtual friends and maybe even be invited to a round of golf sometime.

 

Designing and drafting can be solitary work and it is occasionally nice to share the daily routine with like-minded, but surely no one thinks these guys help their fellow man with Chief Architect issues because they have nothing better to do? A little more respect is deserved please.

Thank you, very well said.

[mthd97]

Thanks to all of the users who take the time to help others learn at their own cost and time.

Some of you guys do allot more than others but it is all good no matter what part you play when it is to help others.

I did not mean to forget you fellow Chiefers as I have learned allot from you all.

Keep looking for the hidden gems in X7.

All the best.

[HumbleChief]

Old Timmer has a valid point.

I see where he is coming from looking at the old forum I have been around for 12 years on these forums.

Take for example our old friend Wendy Welton who came from Revit she is an Architect and was a power user of Chief. Last we heard she was caring for her aged father and I have not seen her post here yet, have any of you seen one?

To me thier seems to be a small core group who dominate this forum and where they get thier time from, I don't know. They must have little sleep and not much of a social life and have delegated thier work to CAD technicians or something like that?

Me, I am partly retired that is why I have time to post.

I want many others users to post so we get a broader view.

Back to Chief, my opinion is if you live in the US and do lots of houses use Chief for fast home modeling kind of like a sketch up tool but more specific for houses.

Revit users who do houses in the US need this very valuable tool that we call Chief in thier arsenal.

Sorry Glenn, OT was not talking out of his Back Side mate, at least from my point of view?

One could interpret Wendy's fewer visits here as Chief's user base 'falling off' but I believe she is actually running a thriving Design business based on Chief architect. I think she has 12 seats from a recent post. So if there's an implication that some older (not older that way Wendy) users are not posting here much any more it's far from accurate to say that therefore Chief's user base is 'falling off'.

 

What if it were just the opposite? The fewer posters here the more busy that user is and the more successful Chief is actually becoming? Heck maybe some day I'll be so busy and have so little leisure time I won't be able to post here at all, because I just bought 4 more seats (hypothetical) for my thriving Chief design business.

 

And I too would like to thank all the users who help on this forum. It's one of the main reasons I check the forums often. First I check to see what I can learn, second I check to see if I can help anyone myself. It's rare that I can but it feels good to help after receiving so much.

[Doug_Park]

All input about how to improve Chief is welcome.

 

BTW. I talk to Wendy on a regular basis. Her lack of posts here is probably due to her business taking more of her time. She has expanded quite a bit so has been a lot busier lately from what I gather.

[Kiwideziner]

In New Zealand we have to be licensed to draw plans, a different license to build, etc. So a lot of builders that once did thier own plans now do not. So therefore the previous user base is reducing.

[johnny]

Isn't it better to seek largest base you can? Seeking us common folk, is just a better business plan. Sell more programs, make more money. Architects also love Chief, b/c it's that good.

 

I think Chief needs to get larger to survive personally....since their revenue directly relates to their spending/development budgets - and now that all that apps are so focused on 3D things will become more competitive.  I think there is no good reason why CA doesn't tweak itself slightly to encompass better support for light commercial projects.  I have a 5 story condo project I am working on right now and I started my massing models in VW, but am debating to try Chief or just stay in VW.

 

I honestly feel a personal demonstration of Chief to a residential architect/designer would net a 50%+ purchase rate.  Chief should be using a 3rd party sales team to get their product into more hands. 

[dshall]

.........

 

I honestly feel a personal demonstration of Chief to a residential architect/designer would net a 50%+ purchase rate.  Chief should be using a 3rd party sales team to get their product into more hands. 

 

You know JPC,  I am with you here (maybe 75% purchase rate) .  I bet I could sell the *&%^*&^% out of this program if given the chance.  I am not sure if a 3rd party sales team is needed,  but I just know I could sell this program to anybody I would meet with......  maybe CA's sales team is already doing this.

 

CA does quite a few shows,  I wonder how many programs they sell at each show.  Maybe they are already doing a great job selling the program.  But give me the chance........  jeez........  I could sell it easily.

 

I have a few clients who use the program in conjunction with what I do for them,  and they are sold on what I can do for them with the program.  

[AriseDesign]

We all know where Chief is good and strong at - they should also focus and improve upon where Revit and Archicad are weak at - A lot of that will depend on us, the users and consumers to keep putting pressure on them to keep making CA the best residential design software in the market

[mthd97]

I would like to see Johnny, Wendy & Joe Carrick on the panel as Architects if they are available to do so. As their input on the forum has been very good and I believe that they may be able to help Cheif develop in the right way for the future of residential home design?