Dimensioning issues with X13

[Whitehorse]

Is anyone else having issues with end to end dimensioning?  I am having issues that support told me that they can't find.  I will run an end to end dimension on an elevation with kitchen cabinets

and the top dimension will be different from the bottom dimension by 1/16"  I am having this issue almost everywhere.  I now have to check everything with a calculator.  I am starting to draw lines to be sure that I have the same start to end points and am having the same problem.  Another issue is that it is also giving me a lot of 0" s I am thinking of deleting X13 and going back to X12

The dimensions are also picking up points that are not chosen in the locate settings like the reveals on cabinets and the inside of the cabinet box.  I am not a new user, have had Chief since X4

[Kbird1]

There are a bunch of new Cabinet Elevation Dimension settings such as Openings in X13 , have a look at this Video.....

 

The 1/16th thing sounds like some are snapping to the Cabinet Box and some to the Door or Drawer  ( reveal is 1/16th by default )

and I have seen this happen myself , but that happened in X12 as well.

 

 

Dimensioning Cabinet Face Items and Openings (chiefarchitect.com)

 

Mick

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, Whitehorse said:

Is anyone else having issues with end to end dimensioning?  I am having issues that support told me that they can't find.  I will run an end to end dimension on an elevation with kitchen cabinets and the top dimension will be different from the bottom dimension by 1/16"  I am having this issue almost everywhere.  I now have to check everything with a calculator.  I am starting to draw lines to be sure that I have the same start to end points and am having the same problem.

 

Obviously tech support looked at your plan file and I would need to see it to confirm but you may possibly be running into a rare issue with your dimension defaults.

 

If it is not what @Kbird1 is suggesting I would be glad to take a look at your plan file before you delete X13.

[PSpence]

I am having the same issue with 13. Honestly the time it is costing me is definite reason to go back to 12 also.

 

I have noticed that turning on cabinet module lines, changing cabinets to framed instead of frameless has helped a bit, but not eliminated the problem.  I watched the above mentioned video and those were things I tried.

If I zoom in very close I can sometimes force it to grab the cabinet instead of the door - but again only sometimes.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-P

[Alaskan_Son]

@Whitehorse and @PSpence, 

There is very little anyone is going to be able to do to help you if y'all don't post plans.  There are too many variables.  It would however seem that your dimension defaults aren't being managed properly, or that you're setting the defaults for one tool and using another, or that you're just using the wrong tool.  A simple example plan that displays the problem would be a good start though.

[Whitehorse]

Thank you for responding but Support looked at my plan and all of my defaults are set correctly.  I am not a new user and know my way around the program for what I do (Kitchen Design)

The program is picking up points that the defaults are not set to.  I have never had this much trouble and I have been a user since X4 and have had nothing but positive things to say about Chief Architect. My zipped file is larger than what I can attach.  I will just draw lines everywhere for the time being and then go back to X12 for new plans until they come out with X14

I might do an hour of training to see if they can solve my problems or see what is going on.  The plans that I am working on have migrated from X12 (sadly)

[Alaskan_Son]

2 minutes ago, Whitehorse said:

Thank you for responding but Support looked at my plan and all of my defaults are set correctly.

What did they tell you the problem was then?

[Whitehorse]

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

What did they tell you the problem was then?

Grant from support sent me a video showing me how he can dimension a few base cabinets, not helpful at all where I am having this problem on all of my plans.

We went through all the tools to be sure they were all set up the same.  No matter what I do it is picking up 1/16" reveals around the doors and also the cabinet interior.

I don't understand why they added that in dimensioning unless they are trying to get custom cabinet companies on board.  I sell custom cabinets and there is no reason for me to add those dimensions to my plans.

I am drawing lines now and getting though my work for now. I do love the rendering in X13 but can't add hours to my day and also have to check everything on a calculator.

Thank you for your suggestions but I am throwing the towel in on X13 for now.  I see that there are other users having the same issue.  I have never had trouble like this since X4.

The system also crashed the other night and my virus protection deleted part of the program which is another issue that has never happened. Luckily I did not lose much work where I was able to repair it with Customer Support.  I have been the biggest fan of CA and have told many other designers how great the program is but can't say that now, especially where support is not trying to help me.  I will hang on a little to see if an update helps but will have to delete X13 for now unless support is willing to screen share with me to see my issues.

[Whitehorse]

On 8/9/2021 at 1:23 PM, PSpence said:

I am having the same issue with 13. Honestly the time it is costing me is definite reason to go back to 12 also.

 

I have noticed that turning on cabinet module lines, changing cabinets to framed instead of frameless has helped a bit, but not eliminated the problem.  I watched the above mentioned video and those were things I tried.

If I zoom in very close I can sometimes force it to grab the cabinet instead of the door - but again only sometimes.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-P

Hi P,

Thank you for your response, I am hoping they will send an update soon.  I don't understand why they added all of this to the dimensioning for cabinetry.  I sell custom cabinets and none of my customers or installers need all of that information.  I will put together a detail if they need more.  Very frustrating, also more work to go through all of the defaults for every tool.

Going back to X12 where the dimensioning tools are reliable and I don't have to fight with every dimension, draw lines and have to use a calculator to double check everything!

Best,

Debbie Theriault

[Whitehorse]

On 8/4/2021 at 1:43 PM, Chopsaw said:

 

Obviously tech support looked at your plan file and I would need to see it to confirm but you may possibly be running into a rare issue with your dimension defaults.

 

If it is not what @Kbird1 is suggesting I would be glad to take a look at your plan file before you delete X13.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, Kbird1 said:

There are a bunch of new Cabinet Elevation Dimension settings such as Openings in X13 , have a look at this Video.....

 

The 1/16th thing sounds like some are snapping to the Cabinet Box and some to the Door or Drawer  ( reveal is 1/16th by default )

and I have seen this happen myself , but that happened in X12 as well.

 

 

Dimensioning Cabinet Face Items and Openings (chiefarchitect.com)

 

Mick

Hi Mick,

 

I had this happen a little in X12.  Where I am a Kitchen Designer I am aware of all of the new defaults and have gone through every tool to be sure everything is set up correctly. Still having the same problem on all of my plans.  All of them have migrated over from X12 but support did not say that it has anything to do with that.  I also watch all of the "what's new" videos when I move to a new version.  Support sent me a little video showing how they can dimension a few base cabinets in elevation.  I have sent the same Customer Support person messages but I don't think they care.  Also have used Chief since X4 and have never had problems like this, I am not a newbie.

[Alaskan_Son]

@Whitehorse, I’m a kitchen and bath designer too, design custom cabinetry, and I very commonly have to dimension all these types of things.  I appreciate where you’re coming from but you’re unlikely to EVER see anything fixed (X13, X14, X15....ever) )if you can’t provide an example plan to prove that it’s not just user error.  I kinda sounds like you may not have sent an actual plan to tech support either.  If it’s as consistent as you say, one of us should be able to reproduce with even the simplest of example plans.  We’re honestly just trying to be helpful.  Newbie or not really doesn’t mean much when Chief just made a bunch of fundamental changes to the dimensioning tools.  Anyway, bottom line is that a lot of us have requested these capabilities, are glad to have them, and are making them work.  If you can demonstrate a reproducible problem I’d be glad to help bug Chief to fix it.  In the meantime, whether you like it or not, most people are going to assume it’s user error until you make enough effort to prove otherwise.

[Kbird1]

17 minutes ago, Whitehorse said:

 

Hi Mick,

 

I had this happen a little in X12.  Where I am a Kitchen Designer I am aware of all of the new defaults and have gone through every tool to be sure everything is set up correctly. Still having the same problem on all of my plans.  All of them have migrated over from X12 but support did not say that it has anything to do with that.  I also watch all of the "what's new" videos when I move to a new version.  Support sent me a little video showing how they can dimension a few base cabinets in elevation.  I have sent the same Customer Support person messages but I don't think they care.  Also have used Chief since X4 and have never had problems like this, I am not a newbie.

 

I don't think it is "you"  , The rest of the guys just wanted help by checking / looking at your defaults I believe to see if it was a setting issue ( a test plan with a couple of cabinets would do),  that being said I am seeing Dimensions snapping to things in X13 I can't see even eg the opening even though it is not displayed or set in defaults as one of the options ( one of the new options along with Doors)

 

Eg here on the Right it has snapped to the opening ( 2'9" dim) ....on the left it has snapped to the Panel and the Panel is showing 1/16th OFF the Box.

 

* this is an X12 Plan brought into X13 ( if it matters? )

 

  

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

13 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I don't think it is "you"  , The rest of the guys just wanted help by checking / looking at your defaults I believe to see if it was a setting issue ( a test plan with a couple of cabinets would do),  that being said I am seeing Dimensions snapping to things in X13 I can't see even eg the opening even though it is not displayed or set in defaults as one of the options ( one of the new options along with Doors)

 

Eg here on the Right it has snapped to the opening ( 2'9" dim) ....on the left it has snapped to the Panel and the Panel is showing 1/16th OFF the Box.

 

* this is an X12 Plan brought into X13 ( if it matters? )

 

  

 

 

You want to post that plan?

[Kbird1]

26 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

You want to post that plan?

 

Its a Client's plan ( Co. Template) , I used to show the issue, so I can't do that.....

 

Mick.

[Alaskan_Son]

11 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Its a Client's plan ( Co. Template) , I used to show the issue, so I can't do that.....

 

Mick.

That makes it 0 for 3.  Oh well, I tried.  If I run into a similar problem in my own plans I’ll report to tech support and if I figure out the culprit will try to report back here.  Till then or until one of y’all posts a plan....

[PMMully]

I am just now getting ready to migrate to x13. Given I was new on X12, and now really moving along pretty well, this sorta spooks me. Would it be possible to reproduce it in a "sanitized plan" (no client data) so we/I could play with it and make sure I get all set? It would be great to see if this could be shown just using the out of the box plan template as a baseline. I would really like to know the details before I jump.

 

@Kbird1its hard to tell from the example from a resolution perspective, but the one on the left looks like it is picking up on a line that may be actually 1/16 thicker? That is what it looks like on my monitor. It looks like the 2-10 1/2 is picking up on the inside (right) of that line and the other on the outside (left)?

 

Would be interesting to see if this happens on a fresh X13 as well, or a migration issue. I would do it myself, but I am not sure I am clear enough on all the setting details that could cause this.

[rlackore]

Here is an example of similar behavior that I don't understand: Dimension Defaults>Locate Manual is set to Cabinets>Corners.

 

But when I drag a manual dimension, I can still locate other cabinet geometry such as stiles, door panels, etc.:

 

This doesn't seem correct. Here's the plan, which is the X13 version of Chief's American Casual template: Amerian Casual.zip

[Whitehorse]

15 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

What did they tell you the problem was then?

Hi Michael,

 

Here is a tiny plan, I did draw lines to dimension to.  I hope you find that it is user error.  

 

MORGAN.zip

[Whitehorse]

14 minutes ago, Whitehorse said:

Hi Michael,

 

Here is a tiny plan, I did draw lines to dimension to.  I hope you find that it is user error.  

 

MORGAN.zip 5.87 MB · 1 download

Hi Michael,

 

Here is the response from support for the plan that I sent in to them.  Why would I waste anyone's time if I did not?

[Dermot]

Robert,

 

I don't think you actually drew a manual dimension.  I think you drew an end-to-end dimension instead and then added new marks manually,

 

If you open the dimension specification dialog, it shows that your dimension line is using the end-to-end dimension locate settings.  This means that you drew an end-to-end dimension.  End-to-end dimensions do not pick up extra marks so you must of have manually added these marks later.

 

When you manually add dimension marks the program will automatically pick up anything you can dimension to.  As far as I know, the program has always worked this way. 

 

The only thing that is different in X13 is that now you can dimension to cabinet openings and door/drawer panels.  This means that it is much easier to pick up things that you might not want.  We are looking into this problem to see if there are any changes we can make to make this less confusing/frustrating.

 

[Kbird1]

7 hours ago, PMMully said:

its hard to tell from the example from a resolution perspective, but the one on the left looks like it is picking up on a line that may be actually 1/16 thicker? That is what it looks like on my monitor. It looks like the 2-10 1/2 is picking up on the inside (right) of that line and the other on the outside (left)?

 

The 2'10" dim is snapped to the Corner/Side of the Cabinet, the 2'9" dim is snapped to the Panel on the left, but X13 is setting Panels 1/16th off the cabinet box it appears hence the two lines... ( and the gap between )

 

M.

[Dermot]

Debbie,

 

We are unable to reproduce the problems you have described.

 

I thought that I had found a problem with the dimensions picking up cabinet openings when they shouldn't but it turns out that you are modeling the upper unit using individual partitions instead of cabinets.  In this case, the dimensions appear to be picking up cabinet sides like they are supposed to.

 

Please read the information I posted above to Robert.  If you are trying to add new dimension marks manually, you may be running into the same problems.

 

If this is not your problem, then please provide our tech support team with more information about how you are drawing and/or modifying your dimensions.  It's important to include things like what tool you are using and whether you are drawing them (left to right or top to bottom).

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, Whitehorse said:

Hi Michael,

 

Here is a tiny plan, I did draw lines to dimension to.

 

I had a quick look and I think you would benefit from some Cabinet Specific Dimension defaults, including shorter Reach ( 4") 

* I still think there are problems though.

 

 

[rgardner]

2 hours ago, rlackore said:

Dimension Defaults>Locate Manual is set to Cabinets>Corners

As what Michael is talking about above it is possibly your settings:

 

[rgardner]

46 minutes ago, Dermot said:

I don't think you actually drew a manual dimension.  I think you drew an end-to-end dimension instead and then added new marks manually,

My suspicion of what is happening as well.

 

I think many users have the misconception that when you manually adjust your dimensions you lose the automatic behavior because Chief thinks you want to over-ride it otherwise you would have told it to automatically do it to begin with.  It's basically the program telling itself, okay this is a special use case so the user wants to override the defaults, give the user total control...