RobUSMC

Dimensions

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I hired two new designers that are new to chief. I purchased additional licenses for them and have been training with them all last week. I gave them some measurements from a previous master bath remodel project for them to start practicing on a small project to draw the as built. They both have the same issue that their temp interior dimensions are not always working.  They select one wall and it will dimension across the room to the parallel wall as it should however another wall can be selected and it dimensions from one end of a room to another ignoring any walls between those two points.The other issue is the reference points in which it is dimensioning to. Some are dimensioning to the exterior of an exterior brick wall, some to the interior drywall surface which is what we want for interior remodeling measurements. When a door, window, etc is selected it gives dimension from the casing or opening to the drywall into the corner of the wall it is on.  I compared my default setting to theirs and there are both the same.  They're are on two different machines with fresh installs of X-12. The only thing they are sharing are the default preferences I exported from my machine and imported to theirs.  The other issue is when only one interior wall is selected they get dimensions for ever wall in the entire plan. (See attached)  I have attached both of their plans to see if anyone can see where the issues are.  Thank you.

Practice Plan Gemma.plan

Practice Plan Keith.plan

Only One Wall Selected.jpg

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The Keith plan has dimensions on a turned off layer. 

 

Delete them and the manual dimensions, and Temporary Dimensions will work as expected.

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Here is the other issue.  When a door, window, opening, fixture is  selected it should dimension to the drywall not to the outside of an exterior wall or the opposite side of an interior wall.737099765_DoortoWallDims.thumb.png.7f9408580fd60d51b670d647e6fdf424.png

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Change the defaults.

 

Did you give them a copy of your template plan? That's the easiest way to get them set up.

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Eric,

I show all dims to be turned off and they still show in the plan271284776_Annotation2020-08-16194134.thumb.jpg.fa30aced89a2d88d087c3fd1e397dd6b.jpg

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I did load my default settings and imported to their machines.  This is not an issue on mine.  Very strange

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10 minutes ago, RobUSMC said:

I show all dims to be turned off and they still show in the plan

 

If they are there, the program will use them instead of Temporary Dimensions. They need to be deleted.

 

11 minutes ago, RobUSMC said:

I did load my default settings and imported to their machines.  This is not an issue on mine. 

 

Not sure how, or what transfers, but a copy of your Template plan is the best way to make sure they are starting with your settings.

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If they are there, the program will use them instead of Temporary Dimensions. They need to be deleted.

 

I have always found this to be frustrating

 

if I want a temp dimension I should be able to place one - not be hindered by this restriction

 

very non user-friendly :(

 

Lew

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Do you like your temp dims to be picking up the casing extents?

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Thanks Gene,

For remodels during site measurements I measure to the casing so yes I do want to dimension to the casing or openings if no casing is present 

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Not sure what the issues are? 

 

IMHO

1) Neither plan have good dimension defaults. 

2) Neither person understands how to provide / convey to a framer of what are you trying to get done, or dimensions.

3) The casings may or may not be against the wall or may not always be flat, could have a different width or depth. They are not a good reference point.

 

dims.thumb.PNG.e130378db100ca5274cb0b7a7af90262.PNG

 

Whole 20 seconds. 

 

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Agree pretty frustrating. It seems I have three machines with three different dimension setting and now Im not sure which to change.  Again, with a remodel, during initial site measurements, I am measuring from drywall to drywall because depending on wall locations without an opening in that wall it may be impossible to determine the wall thickness or the drywall thickness.  Some projects the existing drywall may or may not be removed so that is my reference point. I did measurements on a few current projects in December that haven't ever started yet so some of our dimensions are a guess based on experience. Example was a bath we did recently where drywall to drywall measurements were taken and during demo for whatever reason when the house was built in 1992 one wall had one layer of 5/8" drywall and two layers of 1/2". This was only found out during demo.  I've attached several screen shot of the different dimensions or settings... some are the way I want them others are not.  I DO apologize for all the descriptions, screenshots as Im not sure of the exact terminology to use where

20200816_193352.jpg

Wall Dim Ref Point.jpg

Wall Dims 4.jpg

Wall Dims 5.jpg

Wall Dims 6.jpg

Wall Dims 8.jpg

Wall Dims 10.jpg

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7 hours ago, BrownTiger said:

Not sure what the issues are? 

 

IMHO

1) Neither plan have good dimension defaults. 

2) Neither person understands how to provide / convey to a framer of what are you trying to get done, or dimensions.

3) The casings may or may not be against the wall or may not always be flat, could have a different width or depth. They are not a good reference point.

 

dims.thumb.PNG.e130378db100ca5274cb0b7a7af90262.PNG

 

Whole 20 seconds. 

 

 

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Brown Tiger,

Ill take this as constructive criticism... I realize they may not have good defaults and new and do not understand yet,  These practice plans were their first only after about 6 hours of overview and a few videos.  I got that the default are not correct but that is why I have posted for help to figure out what are the correct default settings.  As far as casings, I can measure from the corner of a room up to the side of a casing of an opening. As long as I know what the width of the casing, the reveal and frame width, I don't see the problem. For this a casings depth does not matter.  Along with those dims, I will also measure a door / window from outside casing to outside casing to get the overall width of the door unit.   Here are a few of the ways I do site measures, along with photos and a comprehensive 15-30 minute video walk thru to make sure anyone could draw the as built. You can see I identify casing sizes.  If i'm measuring from a corner of a room up to a casing I write C-T (Corner to Trim)  If no casing then I write C-O (Corner to Opening) However, I need to figure out what needs to be changed to get those reference points I need.

Site Measure Notes 1.jpg

Site Measure Notes 2.jpg

Site Measure Notes 3.jpg

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Rob,

Without going through all your posts and dissecting each one, it would appear that a lot of your temp dim problems can be corrected by using the Temporary Dimension defaults along with General Wall Defaults settings and current dimension defaults. 

 

68062230_WallDims5.thumb.jpg.9900aa86e53a6552c72086b90ae48928.jpg.28c1a213fc52fae2ffd067e66bd4ea81.jpg

 

Take for instance, the above situation.

If you select the big grey wall going left to right and on the left, you want the temp dim to go to the right hand side of the vertical yellow wall.

Note that the wall grips are at the bottom of the selected wall.

This would indicate to me that you have the General Wall Defaults>Resize About set to Outer Surface (depending on which way you drew the wall).

If you change this default to Inner Surface the wall grips will change to the top surface of the wall and your horizontal dimensions should be as you want.

 

For this one:

2140326864_DoortoWallDims.png.9b9e23c6b23d484734af2427a0059a62.thumb.png.9fed36d095ecb69a6544552fad01e506.png

Set your Temporary Dimensions>With Wall Opening Selected, change to Automatic instead of Locate Primary Wall Side:

11328868_ScreenShot2020-08-17at11_23_33pm.thumb.png.267889239771f98517dd89e383038d8a.png

So,...have a play with the Temporary Dimension Defaults, the General Wall Defaults and the current dimension defaults.

PS. Sometimes it depends on what side of the wall you click on as well.

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But Rob wants his casing extents to set his opening positions from measurements, 'cause that's how he measures the as-built.

 

How can setting do that?

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8 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

But Rob wants his casing extents to set his opening positions from measurements, 'cause that's how he measures the as-built.

 

How can setting do that?

 

That's controlled by your Active Dimension Defaults>Locate Objects>Openings settings. 

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I understand that, Michael.  I thought this whole discussion was about temporary dims, the ones we use for positioning everything when creating a plan.

 

I don't see a setting that can do that.

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4 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

I understand that, Michael.  I thought this whole discussion was about temporary dims, the ones we use for positioning everything when creating a plan.

 

I don't see a setting that can do that.

 

My comment was made very specifically in reference to Temporary Dimensions.  How they behave at openings is controlled by your Dimension Defaults. 

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I'd train a newbie by taking him or her along for a measure, and explain every step of the measure as it progressed.  The prep with tools and data gathering, the photos needed, the sketching, and all the ins and outs of the measure.  It is a detailed process that follows a rigorous schedule.

 

Next would be creating the asbuilt in Chief.  The newbie sits and watched the whole thing unfold.

 

As for drawing con docs, I would find a way to have my newbie spend time on a jobsite when the framer snaps a deck with all the wall lines and openings.

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Just a side note for whatever it’s worth, but I personally find that measuring to the CENTER of openings for site measurements is far less problematic.  When you measure to casings, not only do you have to make sure you accurately record and set casing size, but you also need to record and set frame/jamb reveals and in some cases, even jamb/frame sizes.  Instead of making casings a crucial and integral part of the process, they become a secondary detail as they typically should be since it’s the opening itself that matters the most.  

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I see, Michael.  The dimension settings control how the temps come through.  I had never checked casings before now.

 

I disregard them in doing asbuilts, and since my builders change casings based on theirs and client whims, I go with the same flat trim scheme always.

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Thanks for all the comments and help

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To each his own, but I always measure as-builts to the inside of the jamb/frame; it's the opening size I am most concerned about. The trim can be whatever (I do measure it to make sure I record any differences). The cabinet guy will take his own measurements and adjust accordingly. I take tons of pictures so I get the as-built visuals as close as possible as the real world, but don't worry with such things as reveals.

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