2-ply headers - Join Them

[robdyck]

Does anyone know of an automatic way to get Chief to build a 2-ply header so that the headers are connected and flush to the exterior? Currently Chief builds a 2-ply header with 1 ply flush to the ext and one flush to the int.

The only 'solution' I can think of is a 1 ply header, made 3" thick, but then my auto labels won't be correct, and still, the perpetual problem of every single header being wrong in section view...I cry out for mercy...and a fix to the ongoing header dilemma.

I'm looking for a solution for plan view first and foremost.

[parkwest]

And a bottom plate under the header for nailing your interior trim.

[GeneDavis]

When they are spread one facing each side of wall, no bottom plate header needed.  Less lumber for sure.

 

For 2x6 wall construction, which is in play just about anywhere it gets cold, the problem is insulation.  No one makes readily available 2.5" thickness rigid foam board, which is what one would want between the headers.  Fooling around with 2" and 1/2" is something no framing contractor will do.

 

Insulated headers are available in some markets, but the problem with them is the lack of size availability.  Typically they are sold only in the tall 2x12 height.  You end up over-headered in many places.

 

But yes, Chief should have a setting whereby exterior headers (and there needs to be a distinction between exterior and interior) may opt for paired 2x lumber, tight, faced to outside, with a plate under.

[ACADuser]

Drill small holes & foam fill the box headers.

 

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

Does anyone know of an automatic way to get Chief to build a 2-ply header so that the headers are connected and flush to the exterior?

 

[HumbleChief]

Apologies for not being able to answer the question you clearly posted twice, wish I could be of some help and perhaps I'm just lazy but why wouldn't you just deal with the condition with a detail? Would your framers need that kind of plan view to build the headers correctly and to your liking? Genuinely curious about the need for your request. Thanks.

[robdyck]

15 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Genuinely curious about the need for your request

Sure Larry. In my region, Building Departments require that headers be shown and labeled on plans for detached garages, specifically because these type of structures are often built by homeowners or less experienced carpenters (handymen and women). I have the header sizes adjusted based on the span of the window, and the supported load. That way, I don't have to recheck anything when a client asks for a different sized window. That being said, when a project starts getting close to max. spans, then it would be ideal if a 2-ply header were connected because in Canada, the span charts (as per code) are for "2-ply lintels with non-structural sheathing".

And while our code allows header plies to be separated by filler pieces, that is not a common practice. I include this as a general note on the plans.

 

Code Quote:

3) Lintel members are permitted to be separated by filler pieces.

[HumbleChief]

1 minute ago, robdyck said:

Sure Larry. In my region, Building Departments require that headers be shown and labeled on plans for detached garages, specifically because these type of structures are often built by homeowners or less experienced carpenters (handymen and women). I have the header sizes adjusted based on the span of the window, and the supported load. That way, I don't have to recheck anything when a client asks for a different sized window. That being said, when a project starts getting close to max. spans, then it would be ideal if a 2-ply header were connected because in Canada, the span charts (as per code) are for "2-ply lintels with non-structural sheathing".

And while our code allows header plies to be separated by filler pieces, that is not a common practice. I include this as a general note on the plans.

 

Code Quote:

3) Lintel members are permitted to be separated by filler pieces.

VERY interesting and thanks so much for taking the time to explain. Wonder if any of the the smart guys (you included of course) will come up with an answer to your question. Good luck...

[robdyck]

7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

VERY interesting and thanks so much for taking the time to explain. Wonder if any of the the smart guys (you included of course) will come up with an answer to your question. Good luck...

My expectation is that there is no automatic way for this to be done, so as you alluded to, I can handle this by a CAD detail showing alternate header construction options and including the appropriate notes.

I had been moving away from showing framing in my section views because of the inaccuracies and due to my own time constraints. That being said, I am often able to sell framing details and materials lists as 'extras' for these plans specifically because of the nature of the project as mentioned in my earlier post. And time = money so I'm just looking for efficiencies wherever possible. When I include a framing detail...it will be perfect or it won't be sent out!

Example:

[parkwest]

I can tell you how I do it to get accurate framing... but it requires me to send chief's plans to another CAD program... kind of like what some will do by rendering in another program (ie. Lumion).

 

Sorry, but I have discussed this with tech support and there is no automatic way of doing what you are asking in Chief... as far as I know.

 

Here is an example of a "spaced" header and one placed to the outside:

 

[HumbleChief]

We also live in a VERY different environment here in Southern California and I can't think of a framer who would even LOOK at a header detail (other than size L x W) as we mostly spec wall thickness headers 4x 6x etc. in a structural setting and insulating a header is pretty much unheard of from my experience here at least.

[Alaskan_Son]

No way to do that automatically.  I always just run through and manually modify wall framing as necessary.  A couple quick notes on the double header thing though:

 

1.  A laminated double header is not structurally equivalent to 2 separate header members.  There can be very good reasons to keep the headers sandwiched together.

2.  There's no need for 2-1/2" foam if you sandwich headers.  Simply place 2" foam on the surface.  It largely eliminates conductive heat loss that way too since it results in a 1/2" dead space between the foam and the wall covering.

[Kbird1]

There have been a few Suggestions and other Threads about this Issue but , so far it is not possible as others mentioned, though in X12 they did give us Boxed Headers.

 

here are a few , I am sure there are others....

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/16468-headers-in-x10/

or 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/16473-chief-built-framing-assemblies/